Did world war 3 just start?

[COOPADUP]

I have to wonder if he chose the lesser of two evils. Leaving American troops in position to possibly die in a certain turk invasion or moving them to keep your options open in what is going to get messy. We like to think that that handful of Americans and the possibility of their deaths was deterring the turks but I'm not sure that was going to do the job.

There's more to this story that is just going to have to reveal itself as this continues to unfold. Trump did promise to return troops home. Their mission was Isis and was accomplished.
Now the Turks get to deal with it for a while.

 

[ghuns]

I have to wonder if he chose the lesser of two evils. Leaving American troops in position to possibly die in a certain turk invasion or moving them to keep your options open in what is going to get messy. We like to think that that handful of Americans and the possibility of their deaths was deterring the turks but I'm not sure that was going to do the job.

I have to wonder, what good is being a "superpower" if we can't convince a fellow NATO member, non-superpower type nation NOT to invade a country where we have troops.

 

[ghuns]

...Trump did promise to return troops home...

Only they aren't coming home.

Since May the number of troops in the region is up by 14K.

 

[BugI02]

I have to wonder, what good is being a "superpower" if we can't convince a fellow NATO member, non-superpower type nation NOT to invade a country where we have troops.

Rephrase the question. What good is being world policeman if the world doesn't want to obey our version of the law? The answer is; don't seek to be world policeman, not seek to bend the world to our will. It took 70 years (or 20, depending on how you make the count) to dig the hole we're in, the US won't disentangle itself in a day

Should we be willing to go to war against Turkey and with Syria and Russia? Should we be willing to go to war with Turkey against Russia and Syria? Do you think the Kurds weren't using us just as much as we were using them? Where do you propose to set up Kurdistan?

It's time to let them sort out their own house. A solution imposed from outside guarantees another war. A locally imposed solution doesn't guarantee peace, but it has a better chance of lasting

https://geopoliticalfutures.com/the-origins-of-new-us-turkish-relations/
The Origins of New US-Turkish Relations

 

[BugI02]

I have to wonder if he chose the lesser of two evils. Leaving American troops in position to possibly die in a certain turk invasion or moving them to keep your options open in what is going to get messy. We like to think that that handful of Americans and the possibility of their deaths was deterring the turks but I'm not sure that was going to do the job.

Big media crucifies him either way, leaving Americans to die in a lost cause or withdrawing them and abandoning the kurds.

And you don't have to go back far to find the same media and pundits criticizing any possible partition of Iraq (the best possibility of establishing a Kurdistan) as abandoning the corrupt Iraqi government and unified nation fiction that we created. We can't rip ourselves out of the twisted fabric of the middle east without someone getting hurt. Team endless war will always emphasize that trope.

 

[NKBJ]

354-60... now, I gotta ask, which party are you taking about?

"the perpetual war sleaze corruption pedophile party"
There is only one.
Don't get it? Birds of prey have two wings.

 

[BugI02]

So do all other birds

 

[T.Lex]

Bats have 2 wings. And butterflys.

Bees have 4 though.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

The Dijiang, however...

4 wings, 6 legs, no face.

 

[T.Lex]

The B-2 bomber is one big flying wing.

 

[BugI02]

"What is the sound of one [wing] [fl]apping"

 

[ghuns]

"What is the sound of one [wing] [fl]apping"

Kind of a "whooooosh".

 

[Dead Duck]

Kind of a "whooooosh".

Followed by a big KABOOM!

 

[NKBJ]

Should I have added that one wing is labeled left and the other wing is labeled right?
Surely it's not that hard to understand. Except, people don't do they? They've been trained that there is a two party system.

 

[Leadeye]

I have to wonder, what good is being a "superpower" if we can't convince a fellow NATO member, non-superpower type nation NOT to invade a country where we have troops.

A good point and that may be what he was faced with. A certain invasion by turkish leadership regardless American dead. When confronted with this choice you could move the troops, not move the troops, or exterminate the turkish leadership.

 

[Tombs]

I sent a son in law. Does that count?

He spent the end of last year/beginning of this one over there. When this crap started last week, I was really interested in his opinion. He said he'd rather go back and fight the Turks than leave the SDF/Kurds hangin. He's been as pro-Trump as anyone you'll meet, but this hurt him.

Don't get me wrong, he's not crazy. He won't be voting for Elizabeth Warren or anything kooky like that. But he went from being 100% behind Trump to joining the, WTF is this guy doing, camp.

As close as the last election was, Trump can't afford to lose even a small percentage of his base. The ones he loses don't have to vote Democrat, even if the just stay home he's screwed.

It's be said often that the Democrats could easily beat Trump if they could just hide their crazy. Pretend to be centrists, drop the endless investigations, stop trying to out-leftist each other. But they can't do it.

The same is true for Trump. The upcoming election could be a cakewalk for him if he could pretend to have a coherent foreign policy that doesn't involve selling out people who helped us defeat a serious threat. Stopped tweeting about his "great and unmatched wisdom" and listened to his advisers who actually have some basic understanding of the issues involved. Be the world's greatest dealmaker he claims to be and get us out of the middle east in the best possible way. But he can't do it.

As someone who's vote was primarily for the supreme court and to get us out of the middle east, his actions are what I voted for and have been waiting for, for 3 years.

I'm not alone in this.

Your son-in-law may be willing to give his life for kurds, but that's not a very good way to sum up the value of this conflict for the United States, our people, or our service members. In war, people form bonds with the people they fight alongside, this is normal and how things are supposed to work.
That does not invalidate the point that we shouldn't be sacrificing our people for altruism, in a no-win-situation 40 year conflict.

Where were we when Russia annexed a large portion of Ukraine, a nation we had a treaty with?
What are we doing now, as China expands its borders, oppresses Hong Kong, and continues violent naval expansion?

There's much more noble causes, we have larger obligations to deal with, than a civil war in the middle east. Not to mention, we have a friggin "ally" we should be sanctioning into the ground for their actions against the Kurds, yet people think we should be involved in a ground war...

 

[ghuns]

As someone who's vote was primarily for the supreme court and to get us out of the middle east...There's much more noble causes, we have larger obligations to deal with, than a civil war in the middle east.

He's set 14K additional troops to middle East since May.

At least we got the Supreme Court.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

 

[Kdf101]

So are you sending your son to go die in the middle east for the kurds?

If not, I respectfully request you don't tell your fellow American to do something you wouldn't.

You don’t even know me. Never in combat, but I have been in that area of the world plenty of times, and as a matter of fact my son is too. Don’t talk about what “I wouldn’t do”, when you have no idea what you are talking about. I stand by my point that if we are going to stay involved in that part of the world, we should pick a side and not abandon them.

 

[Tombs]

You don’t even know me. Never in combat, but I have been in that area of the world plenty of times, and as a matter of fact my son is too. Don’t talk about what “I wouldn’t do”, when you have no idea what you are talking about. I stand by my point that if we are going to stay involved in that part of the world, we should pick a side and not abandon them.

And mindsets like this is why we've been there for 40 years and are never leaving.

You'd think at some point people might question the wisdom of a war that lasts this long, but I guess I give people too much credit.

(Protip: There isn't a side over there who wouldn't subjugate you and your family if they had the power to do so, they do not share your values, virtues, or culture.)

 

[Brad69]

Guys it’s the PKK

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers'_Party

Not our friends not allies not good people they are Marxist/Leninist.

We used them as pawns not as allies more like a mercenary force, ISIS was a direct threat to them as well. So after we equip them and train them you have a well equipped force that is conducting operations against Turkey from a safe zone we provided to the PKK by the U.S. not a smart idea.

Notice how the PKK switched sides now with the Syrians the PKK has no allegiance to anyone but Communism and themself.