DeSantis 2024?

[jamil]

Trump is such a great troller he would get banned from INGO!

I think it would be awesome to have Trump on INGO. The filters should catch most of it.

 

[BugI02]

Are you talking about him being liked by the left or able to win the Presidency again? Because I am talking about the latter, and you seem to have focused on the former.

I think Mike is saying you want to believe Trump's difficulties are entirely because he is grandiose and abrasive, and that since DeSantis is more controlled he will be more successful

I believe, and I think Mike does too, that all the forces that attacked Trump will attack DeSantis just as viciously because it isn't just the person, it was the ideas he represented, and any one even remotely authentically conservative or America First (and I still consider the jury out on DeSantis in that respect) will receive the same treatment. I think the left will try to use DeSantis to neutralize Trump and if they succeed then they will turn on him - unless he is already co-opted by the Club for Growth before they get the chance

So tl;dr kid gloves for DeSantis unless and until he benches Trump then business was usual

 

[BugI02]

The left and media are scared to death of Trump. Does not matter what supporters think or say. Trump simply allows himself to be lured into making comments that fuel the narrative. It is his Brooklyn manner of speech and brashness that elected Brandon by alienating the wishy washy middle of the road voter, while being wildly appealing to the conservative base. It is sad that so many are weak minded and unwilling to see only Trump accomplishments and policy. Far to many simply tune out and bristle at the mere mention of Trump. It is NOT in our best interest to ignore these facts unless you crave another four years of Brandon and SOCIALISTS! If Trump wins the nomination, I will happily vote for him. AGAIN!

So what things, exactly, that DeSantis is famous for right now are going to appeal to those 'wishy washy middle of the road voters'? Are the 'independents' going to swoon over busing/flying illegal immigrants to blue cities or making CRT harder to insert into curricula or outlawing 'gender affirming' care for minors?

Given that 'independents' usually break 2 to 1 for Democrats, will any gains DeSantis can make among such feckless voters be greater than his losses among the base? We could certainly end up in exactly the same place we you did in 2020. DeSantis isn't a younger, more disciplined Trump he is the next Scott Walker, unable to take his show on the road

 

[jamil]

It is both and no matter the nominee if they espouse conservatives values they are toxic…

Yeah, I think that to a bat **** crazy freak on the left, anything right of them is toxic. And of late, especially, any establishment types think any form of populism is toxic.

But, the 40 years of the left liking DJT was him as a celebrity, not as a statesman. And I'm giving you that for the sake of argument. Because I wouldn't concede that they were overly fond of the DGT. He donated to Democrats and played the game that wealthy business people play with politicians. They need funds. People like DJT donate.

When DJT announced his candidacy, for strategic reasons, they played him up. And then when he won the nomination, he became toxic. The "toxic" part is just framing.

 

[jamil]

Let's stop calling Trump a conservative too. He is a populist, not a conservative.

Yup. And not that being a populist is the worst a person can be.

 

[jamil]

I think Mike is saying you want to believe Trump's difficulties are entirely because he is grandiose and abrasive, and that since DeSantis is more controlled he will be more successful

I believe, and I think Mike does too, that all the forces that attacked Trump will attack DeSantis just as viciously because it isn't just the person, it was the ideas he represented, and any one even remotely authentically conservative or America First (and I still consider the jury out on DeSantis in that respect) will receive the same treatment. I think the left will try to use DeSantis to neutralize Trump and if they succeed then they will turn on him - unless he is already co-opted by the Club for Growth before they get the chance

So tl;dr kid gloves for DeSantis unless and until he benches Trump then business was usual

I think that it's true. DeSantis will face a firestorm if he's nominated. He's already been "toxified". He's faced more than most governors would, because he has taken on things that are national issues in FL. And he's handled them pretty well. He's handled them head on by articulating his position in contrast to the toxic narrative.

What I've said about Trump is that he doesn't have that ability. That's not how he handles adversaries. And how he handles adversaries in the business world doesn't translate well to politics. He plays right into the toxic narrative.

 

[KLB]

I think Mike is saying you want to believe Trump's difficulties are entirely because he is grandiose and abrasive, and that since DeSantis is more controlled he will be more successful

I believe, and I think Mike does too, that all the forces that attacked Trump will attack DeSantis just as viciously because it isn't just the person, it was the ideas he represented, and any one even remotely authentically conservative or America First (and I still consider the jury out on DeSantis in that respect) will receive the same treatment. I think the left will try to use DeSantis to neutralize Trump and if they succeed then they will turn on him - unless he is already co-opted by the Club for Growth before they get the chance

So tl;dr kid gloves for DeSantis unless and until he benches Trump then business was usual

You are the one focused on DeSantis. I never even thought of him in the context of what we were discussing.

 

[KLB]

I think that it's true. DeSantis will face a firestorm if he's nominated. He's already been "toxified". He's faced more than most governors would, because he has taken on things that are national issues in FL. And he's handled them pretty well. He's handled them head on by articulating his position in contrast to the toxic narrative.

What I've said about Trump is that he doesn't have that ability. That's not how he handles adversaries. And how he handles adversaries in the business world doesn't translate well to politics. He plays right into the toxic narrative.

Trump is still acts like a middle school bully. It is what some like about him, and what turns off a lot of non-lefties that otherwise might.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I think Mike is saying you want to believe Trump's difficulties are entirely because he is grandiose and abrasive, and that since DeSantis is more controlled he will be more successful

I wouldn't say "entirely", more like partially. MSM/Dems can make some outlandish and patently UNTRUE accusations about Trump and people that don't pay close attention can be easily fooled because of the outlandish and TRUE things Trump does/says.

One easy and early example, the "Muslim ban". Had he instead invoked "enhanced vetting of individuals from places that spawn terrorists intent on attacking us at home..." he would not have "turned off" people in the middle who supported this sensible strategy.... and prevailed when he later, well his administration, took this approach. The Dems/MSM would have appeared the extremists rather than him and his administration.

I believe, and I think Mike does too, that all the forces that attacked Trump will attack DeSantis just as viciously because it isn't just the person, it was the ideas he represented, and any one even remotely authentically conservative or America First (and I still consider the jury out on DeSantis in that respect) will receive the same treatment.

Absolutely true... and it only takes having an (R) after the name... see McCain and Romney campaigns.

think the left will try to use DeSantis to neutralize Trump and if they succeed then they will turn on him - unless he is already co-opted by the Club for Growth before they get the chance

I disagree and think the opposite. Look for Dems/MSM to neutralize DeSantis with Trump. Whether it's true or not, they patently believe that they can defeat Trump... and believe that with Trump at the top of the ticket, they will have a blue wave/tsunami in 2024.

It's their plan A.

So tl;dr kid gloves for DeSantis unless and until he benches Trump then business was usual

The MSM/Dem knives have been out for DeSantis since at least 6 weeks into COVID... when he rebelled against the lockdowns... remember all the videos from Florida about (gasp) people on beaches and in boats... and have been ever since. Heck, even 60 Minutes felt they had to put out a patent lie hit piece on him over vaccines... which blew up in their faces.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Whether it's DeSantis or someone else, a DISCIPLINED offensive that DEFEATS the libs, rather than simply "owning" them in troll-space, is what's needed, IMO.

The DeSantis Policy Is Woke Rollback, Not Woke Containment | National Review

James Burnham versus George Kennan in the culture wars.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[Ingomike]

Whether it's DeSantis or someone else, a DISCIPLINED offensive that DEFEATS the libs, rather than simply "owning" them in troll-space, is what's needed, IMO.

The DeSantis Policy Is Woke Rollback, Not Woke Containment | National Review

James Burnham versus George Kennan in the culture wars.

www.nationalreview.com

How did that approach work out for McCain and Romney? Two men that are often used as a RINO poster child.

Something, something, insanity, Einstein…

 

[KLB]

How did that approach work out for McCain and Romney? Two men that are often used as a RINO poster child.

Something, something, insanity, Einstein…

Neither of them were anything other than offensive

 

[SheepDog4Life]

How did that approach work out for McCain and Romney? Two men that are often used as a RINO poster child.

Something, something, insanity, Einstein…

I think you only focused on the "trolling" to "own" libs part of my post... McCain/Romney were both the "lesser of two evil", RINO types who wanted to be loved by the Washington press... attend parties... have nice things said about them by people who hated them... etc.

The contents of the article are to rollback lib/woke gains, not merely halt/check their gains in place... pull them out by the roots, which is what FL bill 999 for public higher education does.

ETA: and if you're comparing DeSantis to Romney/McCain, then I think you're off in the weeds. Dems/MSM are not railing against him simply because of the (R) after his name... they're railing against him because he's effective in rolling back prog's agenda AND garnering widespread support in doing so.

 

[Ingomike]

I think you only focused on the "trolling" to "own" libs part of my post... McCain/Romney were both the "lesser of two evil", RINO types who wanted to be loved by the Washington press... attend parties... have nice things said about them by people who hated them... etc.

The contents of the article are to rollback lib/woke gains, not merely halt/check their gains in place... pull them out by the roots, which is what FL bill 999 for public higher education does.

ETA: and if you're comparing DeSantis to Romney/McCain, then I think you're off in the weeds. Dems/MSM are not railing against him simply because of the (R) after his name... they're railing against him because he's effective in rolling back prog's agenda AND garnering widespread support in doing so.

I am proving it is the message, not the messenger that is toxic. Simple as that…

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I am proving it is the message, not the messenger that is toxic. Simple as that…

I disagree and would point to things like "Don't say gay!"

The MSM/Dems have to make up stuff like that up because the core message, the policy, resonates with the vast majority of voters. Primary school children should not be instructed on LGBTQ. Full stop! Period! End of story.

Getting pulled into (or jumping head-first into) hard to prove accusations of "groomers" makes the core message and policy the side-show, and becomes toxic to people who support the policy.

 

[Ingomike]

I disagree and would point to things like "Don't say gay!"

The MSM/Dems have to make up stuff like that up because the core message, the policy, resonates with the vast majority of voters. Primary school children should not be instructed on LGBTQ. Full stop! Period! End of story.

Getting pulled into (or jumping head-first into) hard to prove accusations of "groomers" makes the core message and policy the side-show, and becomes toxic to people who support the policy.

This has no relevance to the topic.

Those with TDS say that Trump is unelectable because of mean tweets that make him toxic.

I say mean tweets are not what makes him toxic, it is the message he is delivering.

I point out how McCain and Romney, a pair of RINO’s that were also presented as toxic when they delivered the conservative/populist message, showing it is the message not the messenger that is toxic.

 

[KLB]

This has no relevance to the topic.

Those with TDS say that Trump is unelectable because of mean tweets that make him toxic.

I say mean tweets are not what makes him toxic, it is the message he is delivering.

I point out how McCain and Romney, a pair of RINO’s that were also presented as toxic when they delivered the conservative/populist message, showing it is the message not the messenger that is toxic.

Again, you are talking about two different things. Toxic to progressives and toxic to non-Trumpers are two different things. Stop conflating the two.

 

[Ingomike]

Again, you are talking about two different things. Toxic to progressives and toxic to non-Trumpers are two different things. Stop conflating the two.

You are the one making division where there is not one.

 

[BugI02]

You are the one focused on DeSantis. I never even thought of him in the context of what we were discussing.

So, you were posting in the DeSantis 2024 thread, but weren't thinking about him at all in that context

Oh ... kayyy

 

[KLB]

So, you were posting in the DeSantis 2024 thread, but weren't thinking about him at all in that context

Oh ... kayyy

Nope. I was replying to a comment about Trump. I am not a fanboy for DeSantis.