Corporal Punishment in School

[buzzined]

If I found out a teacher laid a finger on one of my kids, the police would be at that school removing my hands from that teachers throat.

If my kids misbehave in school send them to the principal, let me know and I will deal with it. You want to give them detention/suspension/expulsion then thats your right but don't touch them you don't have the right.

Plus the would probaly abuse the system and start to really hurt kids then they would all be getting sued.

 

[MTC]

To be young again!!!

Yeah, it's amazing how much Dad learned, the progress he made and how much smarter he got between when I was 16 and around 23-24 yrs old.

 

[public servant]

• Abolish the Department of Education.
• Privatize all public schools.
• Give taxpayers their money back.
• Get rid of compulsory education laws.
• Abolish gun-free-zones in schools.
• If you want your kid to go to boot camp, pick a strict school.
• If you want your kid to hate guns, pick a school that has anti-gun policies.
• If you want to teach your kid your values, home school, and save money.
• Sit back and watch the total anarchy ensue.

After those policy changes happen, I personally would pick a school without tenure policy and that is non-unionized. And I'd pick a school that doesn't allow prison style searches of kids, dogs sniffing lockers and cars, and metal detectors at the gates. Ideally the teachers would be allowed and encouraged to CC. I don't need any of my preferences forced on everybody by law. You pick the school that suits you, and pay for it yourself.

Socialized education is like any socialized service; bloated, inefficient, and unfair. The Public School system has about as much chance of being "fixed" as Obamacare does -- it needs to be repealed. You can't fix a few details and correct the root of the problem.

You can't make a one-size fits all system, and expect everyone to pay for it and like it. Some kids can handle being lined up in neat little rows and ordered as to how they can move their fingers. Other kids succeed using an alternate approach. Neither is wrong, but you should only have to pay for one.

While I don't disagree with a lot of what you propose here...one thing in particular strikes me as odd...

You're advocating these teachers to carry a gun around your kids. The same teachers you don't trust to paddle your kids...you'd have carry a deadly weapon around them. (Again...I don't disagree...I wouldn't step into a high school classroom without one if I were a teacher)

Can I assume this is strictly from a 2A point of view?

Again...I agree that public education is trashed. But most of the problems with it comes from bending it to suit parents who do not know their own role as a parent. These people are teachers...not babysitters or magicians.

I do agree that schools should be a pay as you go program. My kids are no longer in school...myself and those who don't use them shouldn't be footing the bill.

And thanks for the response.

 

[rambone]

While I don't disagree with a lot of what you propose here...one thing in particular strikes me as odd...

You're advocating these teachers to carry a gun around your kids. The same teachers you don't trust to paddle your kids...you'd have carry a deadly weapon around them. (Again...I don't disagree...I wouldn't step into a high school classroom without one if I were a teacher)

Can I assume this is strictly from a 2A point of view?

Yes, mainly a 2A point of view. We've all debated the silliness of gun free zones ad nauseum. Presumably in a free society, the policy of the school (employer) is the only thing preventing teachers or parents from carrying. I'd prefer my kids to be around people who advocated the same freedom that I do; plus that school would not be a soft target for somebody to shoot the place up. The teachers would have some recourse to protect the kids other than hiding under their desk. If 10% of people in Indiana have a LTCH, then it is safe to assume they are already exposed to plenty of strangers who carry.

I don't see the guns adding much degree of danger toward the kids because I'm already not so much in favor of the teachers getting physical with the students to begin with. If teachers were accustomed to venting their frustrations by getting physical, that opinion might change. Teachers in the old days used to get very physical; sometimes the kid would try to defend himself. I can't see those kind of confrontations being very ideal when someone's gun is liable to be knocked out of its holster (or God forbid drawn on purpose). This is all the more reason not to advocate getting physical with people outside your family. When you are armed, you defuse situations, not provoke potential fights.

 

[Amishman44]

You know I can not say what is right or wrong for a girl today. I can only speak of the rules that I went thru when I was a kid and I dont think I came out to bad. If you got a whipping at school you got one at home. Please keep in mined I grew up on a farm. and it was several years ago.

I understand this...and ditto the results of your choices.

I grew up on a farm in the late 60's and through the 70's...whuppin's at school led to whuppin's at home, period.

After being a high school biology, health, PE teacher, and coach, I believe the following to be true:

1) The biggest failure in the US (world) today is the breakdown of the family unit (aka, the failure of the father as leader and developer of his children's character.)

2) Everyone talks about kids needing discipline (not abuse or punishment, but discipline and direction) but they wait until they are old enough for the military and then expect them to develop it in their children. It needs to start much earlier than that, if you're waiting until then, you may have waited too long! (If you're kid is getting disciplined at school, please do not show up pissed off about it, the problem comes from the home, if you don't like it, do something about it THERE!)

3) Direction / Leadership - kids need focus and providing limitations on some things can aid in developing that focus. A parent should be the primary developer of children, helping them to understand who they are and what their skills and talents are and help them to figure out how to best develop them to 'be all they can be.'

So, would I allow an administrator to spank my child, yes! AFTER I have sat down with them, gotten to the truth of the matter, and agreed that a spanking is warrented...and it's done IN MY PRESENSE! The child needs to know that the school is an 'authority' that needs to be respected and adhered to. We may not always like what they have to say, nor what they want us to do...but then we may not like it in the military either!



Just my !

 

[Amishman44]

Yeah, it's amazing how much Dad learned, the progress he made and how much smarter he got between when I was 16 and around 23-24 yrs old.

My dad got real smart about the time I turned 28-30...it was amazing how much he grew up and began to see things from a 'mature' point of view! I was sooooo proud of him!

 

[ghostinthewood]

Let me take on to the breakdown of the family unit spiel you got that parents don't want to take responsibility. If Jimmy does get in trouble they deny deny deny. Even for the simplest of things. People assume that cenorship, teachers, police officers, etc. will parent their kid and when someone comes to them with a problem then they're calling them a bad parent.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I got it when I was in school. My wife and I told the school that if there were problems with our daughter, we were to be notified and WE would administer any needed physical discipline. I believe in corporal punishment, but I don't believe it's anyone else's responsibility to discipline my daughter... and I don't trust them to do so, either.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[ocsdor]

So, would I allow an administrator to spank my child, yes! AFTER I have sat down with them, gotten to the truth of the matter, and agreed that a spanking is warranted...and it's done IN MY PRESENCE! The child needs to know that the school is an 'authority' that needs to be respected and adhered to. We may not always like what they have to say, nor what they want us to do...but then we may not like it in the military either!

I agree with this statement. After all, some children are willing to receive the punishments from home provided it gets them out of school, regardless of how severe those punishments may be.

I also would like to add that, in order to support both sides of the debate, the schools should give out a form each year for the parents to sign and allow the parent to chose whether or not the child can receive corporal punishment (by the principal).

For those that chose Yes, a parent comes in and watches the principal give out the paddlings.

For those that chose No, the child gets suspended from school.

 

[Ramen]

Since we will be home educating our children, we will be in charge of disciplining them.

Strangers can talk to me about it, but otherwise they can keep their hands off.

 

[Expat]

Again...I agree that public education is trashed. But most of the problems with it comes from bending it to suit parents who do not know their own role as a parent. These people are teachers...not babysitters or magicians.

Yep, the parents of these children do not parent their children and threaten violence if someone else lawfully does so. So now not only are they spoiled little brats but they have also learned that it is okay to threaten or engage in violence against authority figures. Great role models.

 

[ghostinthewood]

Can I-uh get aaaaaan amen-uh!

 

[BigMatt]

The people that have a problem with corporal punishment are probably the people that wouldn't spank their kids in the first place.

My kids will most likely go to school knowing what a good spanking feels like. This, in my opinion, is the problem with kids nowadays - They don't get spanked, they don't have any respect for an authority figure, and then the parents unleash the little hellions on the schools only to tie the teachers' hands on any kind of meaningful punishment.

 

[hvacrguy]

Punishment

I graduted in 2005 and only one teacher I was aware of would use corporal punishment in our school system. He was an old Ag teacher been there for 40+ years it was simple in his class. You show up late horse around or anything of the sorts that other teachers would flip out about you had two choices. 1. two whacks choice 2. go to the dean. I'd say 98% chose the whacks. The thing was if you kept screwing up the whacks would double each time. And let me tell you from experience a 67 year old man that stood no more than 5'2'' and could put on one HELL of a whack.

It was funny no other teachers would do this. But till the day he retired and until present he is still one of the most respected teachers in the area.

Now I am in law enforcement and deal with kids on a daily basis parents do need to step up and be parents. It is crazy how out of control kids are in school. I really don't think teachers stand a chance either way. I respect every teacher I have had along the way I guess it just starts at home.

 

[rambone]

The people that have a problem with corporal punishment are probably the people that wouldn't spank their kids in the first place.

Don't you think its possible to believe in spanking, but under much more rigid conditions than will ever be followed by a teacher? For parents to want to be the only figure who administers such a punishment? To want to avoid all the obvious complications of having strangers laying their hands on your child's bottom?

My kids will most likely go to school knowing what a good spanking feels like. This, in my opinion, is the problem with kids nowadays - They don't get spanked, they don't have any respect for an authority figure, and then the parents unleash the little hellions on the schools only to tie the teachers' hands on any kind of meaningful punishment.

I think it is possible to be an effective parent (or an effective teacher) without ever raising a hand to a child. Not ever parent (or teacher) knows how to be effective without it though. Respect can be derived from methods other than force. I am ok with the idea of spanking my own kid, but it will be under very specific circumstances and performed by myself only. I don't trust strangers to do very much for me, let alone punish my kid with violence. I do not wish a return to the days when kids came home with bruises and black eyes from their teachers.

 

[eatsnopaste]

Did I say something wrong? That stuff is entirely possible and even likely to happen. Does that seem like a dumb thing to worry about? You don't think that many, many teachers are complete strangers to the parents of the kids they teach? How can a parent keep track of them all? (Sometimes 8 different teachers at a time, for every child.) You don't think there are pervy teachers out there?

You want a system that fits everyone, you better account for everything. And crap like this is ripe for abuse, and there are plenty of bad apples bobbing though the system who will gladly abuse the power you want to give them.

What I would like would be a poll given that isn't worded so as to gear answers towards your viewpoint. How about this one...Rambone, when did you stop beating your wife? Perfectly logical question isn't it? Come on, was it recently? Last month? How about this one, what have you done to rid yourself of the toxins in your body, that you know you have, from the vaccinations you received as a child? You know, the ones that give you seizures and have caused you other health maladies over the years.

 

[eatsnopaste]

We ARE forced to fund these schools through our tax dollars whether we use them or not. And educating at home isn't exactly simple or cheap with all the absurd government restrictions on it.

The fact that you don't see anything better out there doesn't mean we should not discuss or advocate something better.

Telling him to go find another country to live in is NOT a constructive way to discuss ANY topic. It's petty and ridiculous.

you also are forced to pay for our roads whether you use them or not, pay for your Governmental bodies whether you agree with them or not, heck here in St. Joseph county we pay for recycling whether we use it or not. We are forced to pay for many things in this state we may or may not use...like public schools.
I also would like to see a lot less of the "don't agree with me then get out of my country" type of statements.

 

[eatsnopaste]

Could someone show me where this "Tenure" is? Is it by school, school corp.? In the Union contracts? I've had a couple teachers in my family and as far as I know, none of them had "Tenure?"

 

[steveh_131]

Could someone show me where this "Tenure" is? Is it by school, school corp.? In the Union contracts? I've had a couple teachers in my family and as far as I know, none of them had "Tenure?"

It's specific to each school district, I believe.

Here's an interesting article about it.

Impossible-to-fire Teachers « John Stossel

 

[ghostinthewood]

It's specific to each school district, I believe.

Here's an interesting article about it.

Impossible-to-fire Teachers « John Stossel

This is about right. The majority of my family is made up of educators. Its really not even so much that I don't trust them, I just think that is something that should be left at home. Moreso, while my dad is a principal, I still wouldnt trust a lot of those in the administration.