Corporal Punishment in School

[MinuteMan47]

There can be bad teachers...
There are probably a higher percentage of Bad Parents though...

Not disagreeing.

However, I still don't believe a TEACHER should be responsible for handing out punishments. If a child is disobedient (or as you said "doesn't have manners"), send them to the office, call the parent, and come up with a solution to the PARENT'S DISCRETION (as far as corporal punishment goes). If the parent disagrees with corporal punishment then there are much more productive forms of discipline.

 

[jeremy]

You mean situations like you and your gang stealing some of your buddies dad's powder, packing it into a Garcia Vega cigar tube that you swiped from the farmer you milked for, packing it with a glue gun and a black cat, putting it into a carp that you shot with your 10/22 in the fields after a flood made the strip pit overflow, and putting it in a mailbox?

Is that My story or Yours?!

It does sound vaguely reminiscent of some of the events in my past...

 

[jeremy]

Not disagreeing.

However, I still don't believe a TEACHER should be responsible for handing out punishments. If a child is disobedient (or as you said "doesn't have manners"), send them to the office, call the parent, and come up with a solution to the PARENT'S DISCRETION (as far as corporal punishment goes). If the parent disagrees with corporal punishment then there are much more productive forms of discipline.

I am not arguing that there are not better forms of Punishment out there. I view Corporal Punishment as the last tool in the box. The one you pull out when all others have been exhausted.

Personally I think Parents should be fined or punished for when Junior chooses to be a heathen. I would bet if you done that it would get Parents involved in their Childs life...

 

[MinuteMan47]

Personally I think Parents should be fined or punished for when Junior chooses to be a heathen. I would bet if you done that it would get Parents involved in their Childs life...

Ahhh, more fines and punishments for the parent.

So, fine the parent for not disciplining the child.....and fine them FOR DISCIPLINING the child.

Parents are investigated every day in this country for using corporal punishment on their own kids. So, WHY would anyone consider it ok for a teacher or school to do it? This is why I disagree with corporal punishment.

If I took a belt off and spanked my child, or swatted them with a paddle my guess is the school would be the FIRST one to report me when my kid went to school the next day limping or acting different. If a parent dare punish their own kid and put a bruise on them then guess what CPS will be knocking on their door.

Why the double standard for the school systems then?

 

[ghostinthewood]

Whatever. I got my ass beat on a regular basis. I never even thought about touching a teacher. Mostly because deep down I knew I deserved whatever punishment I received. I carried a riffle back and forth to school because I was on the shooting team. I had ammo. I wouldn't have even thought of shooting a teacher. It's the whiny ass little Ritalin kids that never had their ass tanned that have shot up schools.

Little whiny pricks that complain that life is tough don't know what tough is.

I got blamed for a lot of things I didnt do because I disagreed with teachers in "open" discussions in class and I had tattoos and piercings. Funny, they seemed to be my friend on Friday nights thought...

Everyone's definition of tough is different. One person may say bailing hay makes you tough, or squatting 600bs, or leg pressing a geo metro, or building a shelter from sticks, or skinning animals. Others may say it would be dealing with a loss of someone dear and making it a motivator, or overcoming adversity in general. So trying to call one person tough over another is elementary.

There can be bad teachers...
There are probably a higher percentage of Bad Parents though...

Not disagreeing.

However, I still don't believe a TEACHER should be responsible for handing out punishments. If a child is disobedient (or as you said "doesn't have manners"), send them to the office, call the parent, and come up with a solution to the PARENT'S DISCRETION (as far as corporal punishment goes). If the parent disagrees with corporal punishment then there are much more productive forms of discipline.

There still needs to be punishment. My dad used to be a principal at the "west side" elementary school here. There are a lot of ye olde "working" class parents who I bet couldn't make it there, while the child would still need to be reprimanded.

If you're wanting to "punish" your kids without violence, or fear of being caught, just have them do wall sits and hold your boots. =p

 

[jeremy]

Ahhh, more fines and punishments for the parent.

So, fine the parent for not disciplining the child.....and fine them FOR DISCIPLINING the child.

Parents are investigated every day in this country for using corporal punishment on their own kids. So, WHY would anyone consider it ok for a teacher or school to do it? This is why I disagree with corporal punishment.

If I took a belt off and spanked my child, or swatted them with a paddle my guess is the school would be the FIRST one to report me when my kid went to school the next day limping or acting different. If a parent dare punish their own kid and put a bruise on them then guess what CPS will be knocking on their door.

Why the double standard for the school systems then?

I have little, actually closer to No problem, with you disciplining your Children using whatever means that pass the Reasonableness muster...

What would you have someone do if a Childs Parents refuse to stop or Discipline their Childs Behavior?!

 

[MinuteMan47]

There still needs to be punishment. My dad used to be a principal at the "west side" elementary school here. There are a lot of ye olde "working" class parents who I bet couldn't make it there, while the child would still need to be reprimanded.

Where in my post did you see that I was for no punishment at all?

 

[ghostinthewood]

Where in my post did you see that I was for no punishment at all?

I was just speaking in general. Some people take what people say here and run with it to the extremes so I try to shoot them down before they get there. =p

 

[rambone]

If a parent dare punish their own kid and put a bruise on them then guess what CPS will be knocking on their door.

Why the double standard for the school systems then?

Because the government is good and loving. It should always get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[MinuteMan47]

What would you have someone do if a Childs Parents refuse to stop or Discipline their Childs Behavior?!

Actually, a VERY good question.

When I went to school "problem children" sat in the office ALL DAY. They were given their homework and it had to be completed and checked before they could leave for the day. If it wasn't, then the work would have been completed in "Saturday School".

 

[ghostinthewood]

Actually, a VERY good question.

When I went to school "problem children" sat in the office ALL DAY. They were given their homework and it had to be completed and checked before they could leave for the day. If it wasn't, then the work would have been completed in "Saturday School".

Dont always think that kids will view that as a punishment though. Haha.

 

[Coach]

Some points in no particular order:

1) If your child's teacher and administrators fit into the "stranger" category that is your fault and it is wrong. The first time you meet or talk to them should not be when something has happened.

2) If you do not know and trust your child's teacher enough to trust their judgement as to what needs to be done in class then you are wrong. If don't trust them change classes or schools. My kids are not going to go to any classroom where I am not comfortable with the person standing in front of it. Private school or public school does not or should not matter.

3) There are bad teachers and administrators and that is the publics fault for tolerating it. I can name names of teachers who if they gave my teenage daughter a ride home from school I would yank them out of the car and hand out and a** whippin, and I mean the teacher.

4) Hands on discipline is exactly the right way to go with some kids and some situations. There is not a one size fits all rule or policy that will always work. That is what common sense and judgement are for.

5) There is a big difference between punishment and abuse, and most people think abuse starts long before it really does.

6) In loco parentis is something that people seem to not be real up to speed on. Like it or not your kids teachers have a tremendous amount of power and responsibility.

7) A problem student needs to be dealt with immediately because disruptions of order in the classroom affect others education in a negative fashion, and that is wrong.

8) The point of any discipline is changed behavior. Whatever nature of discipline that is used what we are trying to accomplish is changed behavior. Not having the option of physical punishment hamstrings the school and the parent.

9) I have had to spank my 11 year old daughter 3 times in her life. I have never left a mark on her, and it was not necessary to do so. Spankings were appropriate and effective. I seriously doubt I have to do it ever again, but I will if it needs to happen. I never enjoyed it at all.

10) Some people respond best with a hands on approach. Like it or not I have quite a bit of personal experience and I find this to be the case.

11) If two kids are fighting in the hallway and your son or daughter is getting the living **** beat out of them do you want me to say stop and be ignored, or do you want me to stop it?

12) How does your child's teacher(s) view you? Active parent or do they even know you.

13)I respect a difference of opinion(s) on this topic, and I know some people have been wronged at school and in the past. I think it is important to trust the teacher. If I put my kid in a class, or on a team then I am giving my consent to that teacher/coach to act on my behalf. I don't have the right to put them there and then tell the teacher or coach what I want done. I have looked into the situationa and given my approval in advance.

How's that for some talking points?

 

[ghostinthewood]

I think I can agree with the majority of it, but not as it applies to whippings =p

 

[rambone]

1) If your child's teacher and administrators fit into the "stranger" category that is your fault and it is wrong. The first time you meet or talk to them should not be when something has happened.

The way our government institutions are set up, this is pretty optimistic. Parents are lucky if they know all the classes their kids are in; let alone know each individual teacher for each individual class. Then add in the administration, substitute teachers, teacher's aides, security guards, the hall monitors, the guards overseeing workout time in the yard, and anyone else remotely likely to want a piece of your kid. Any parent who can name every one of these people is really on the ball. The fact remains though, you don't know what they are like when they get mad, you don't know what they are capable of, you don't know how they treat their own kids -- they are still strangers.

2) If you do not know and trust your child's teacher enough to trust their judgement as to what needs to be done in class then you are wrong. If don't trust them change classes or schools. My kids are not going to go to any classroom where I am not comfortable with the person standing in front of it. Private school or public school does not or should not matter.

You must be imagining a school where you stay with one teacher the whole day. Kids move around from teacher to teacher in many of these institutions. Often there are thousands of kids in one building and hundreds of staff. Everything I said for (1) applies here.

And when you say "you are wrong," how exactly do you you come to that conclusion? We have compulsory education -- parents don't exactly get much of a choice in the matter, and I've already made the case for why not everyone has the option to home school (see below). The laws are wrong; they'd be even worse if people were forced to send kids to a place they fear and hate, and people in charge are hitting them.

(On home schooling) Not everyone has the means to do it. How does a single mother working 2 jobs have time to home school? She's being taxed to pay for a government education. If she got to keep that money she might be able to work less hours and find the time to teach her kid herself. Public Schools have to fit everybody, that's what makes them such a spectacular failure. You can't force someone to pay for a public service and then tell people to "home school" when their kid is being abused, and forced to be there by law.

​

3) There are bad teachers and administrators and that is the publics fault for tolerating it. I can name names of teachers who if they gave my teenage daughter a ride home from school I would yank them out of the car and hand out and a** whippin, and I mean the teacher.

The deck is stacked against us. In government, it takes a force of nature to get the "bad apples" removed. Not to mention -- You've heard of unions right? The abusers get protected by their mob leaders.

And does the public seem particularly awake or active in school politics? Probably not. Kids don't deserve to get whooped on by some twisted gym teacher on a power trip, because the public is in a medicated TV-trance and won't take an interest. It isn't the kids' fault, but they are the ones who would be getting the whoopin's.

 

[rambone]

being administered by strangers running your child's school.
what would you allow a stranger to do to your kids?
Want your 17 year old daughter to be spanked by a creepy old principal in his office?
Go on, defend your side.

Gee I wonder what side you're on? Don't want to ask polling questions slanting towards what you believe in do you?

Did I say something wrong? That stuff is entirely possible and even likely to happen. Does that seem like a dumb thing to worry about? You don't think that many, many teachers are complete strangers to the parents of the kids they teach? How can a parent keep track of them all? (Sometimes 8 different teachers at a time, for every child.) You don't think there are pervy teachers out there?

You want a system that fits everyone, you better account for everything. And crap like this is ripe for abuse, and there are plenty of bad apples bobbing though the system who will gladly abuse the power you want to give them.

 

[public servant]

Rambone,

You've identified the problems with education as you see it.

Now give us the detailed solutions to fix it.

And remember...your plan for education must fit everyone.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

I got blamed for a lot of things I didnt do because I disagreed with teachers in "open" discussions in class and I had tattoos and piercings. Funny, they seemed to be my friend on Friday nights thought...

Everyone's definition of tough is different. One person may say bailing hay makes you tough, or squatting 600bs, or leg pressing a geo metro, or building a shelter from sticks, or skinning animals. Others may say it would be dealing with a loss of someone dear and making it a motivator, or overcoming adversity in general. So trying to call one person tough over another is elementary.

And other people would say that teaching a kid there are consequences, positive and negative, for every one of their actions prepares them to be tough. That being tough has more to do with your ability to stand up and tell the truth knowing the ramifications will be unpleasant and painful than whether you can bale hay, squat 600 pounds, or leg press a geo metro. Because those skills and abilities are fleeting. Character lasts not only your life time but your descendants as well.

 

[randyb]

I voted spankings as needed as well. The fact remains that kids need both positive and negative rewards for their actions. the sooner we relearn that we are responsible for our actions and that we will be held accountable for the rights and wrongs we do, then the world will be a better place.

 

[Mike H]

I grew up in the Catholic grade schools system during the late fifties and sixties. Kindergarten through 8th grade. All taught by nuns. You had better believe that they believed in punishment. You also got a lecture first, it always went like this..."Mr. H you will burn in Hell if you don't change", then they WHACKED your knuckles with a ruler, all the while you are sitting at your desk. No going to see the principal.
I guess I turned out alright, heck I'm on INGO!

 

[steveh_131]

Rambone,

You've identified the problems with education as you see it.

Now give us the detailed solutions to fix it.

And remember...your plan for education must fit everyone.

It doesn't have to fit everyone. It won't fit everyone as long as there is socialized education. There is no solution.

He's simply asking a question about how far we should let an inherently flawed system go in punishing our children.