Corporal Punishment in School

[eatsnopaste]

Some points in no particular order:

1) If your child's teacher and administrators fit into the "stranger" category that is your fault and it is wrong. The first time you meet or talk to them should not be when something has happened.

2) If you do not know and trust your child's teacher enough to trust their judgement as to what needs to be done in class then you are wrong. If don't trust them change classes or schools. My kids are not going to go to any classroom where I am not comfortable with the person standing in front of it. Private school or public school does not or should not matter.

3) There are bad teachers and administrators and that is the publics fault for tolerating it. I can name names of teachers who if they gave my teenage daughter a ride home from school I would yank them out of the car and hand out and a** whippin, and I mean the teacher.

4) Hands on discipline is exactly the right way to go with some kids and some situations. There is not a one size fits all rule or policy that will always work. That is what common sense and judgement are for.

5) There is a big difference between punishment and abuse, and most people think abuse starts long before it really does.

6) In loco parentis is something that people seem to not be real up to speed on. Like it or not your kids teachers have a tremendous amount of power and responsibility.

7) A problem student needs to be dealt with immediately because disruptions of order in the classroom affect others education in a negative fashion, and that is wrong.

8) The point of any discipline is changed behavior. Whatever nature of discipline that is used what we are trying to accomplish is changed behavior. Not having the option of physical punishment hamstrings the school and the parent.

9) I have had to spank my 11 year old daughter 3 times in her life. I have never left a mark on her, and it was not necessary to do so. Spankings were appropriate and effective. I seriously doubt I have to do it ever again, but I will if it needs to happen. I never enjoyed it at all.

10) Some people respond best with a hands on approach. Like it or not I have quite a bit of personal experience and I find this to be the case.

11) If two kids are fighting in the hallway and your son or daughter is getting the living **** beat out of them do you want me to say stop and be ignored, or do you want me to stop it?

12) How does your child's teacher(s) view you? Active parent or do they even know you.

13)I respect a difference of opinion(s) on this topic, and I know some people have been wronged at school and in the past. I think it is important to trust the teacher. If I put my kid in a class, or on a team then I am giving my consent to that teacher/coach to act on my behalf. I don't have the right to put them there and then tell the teacher or coach what I want done. I have looked into the situationa and given my approval in advance.

How's that for some talking points?

Well said, and on the money!

 

[jeremy]

I guess I turned out alright, heck I'm on INGO!

And this is your Idea of Validity of Normality?!

Back to the Nuns for you...

 

[ghostinthewood]

And other people would say that teaching a kid there are consequences, positive and negative, for every one of their actions prepares them to be tough. That being tough has more to do with your ability to stand up and tell the truth knowing the ramifications will be unpleasant and painful than whether you can bale hay, squat 600 pounds, or leg press a geo metro. Because those skills and abilities are fleeting. Character lasts not only your life time but your descendants as well.

They're just as fleeting as back in the day when you had to walk up hill both ways through the snow to get your ass beat from your drunk father for something trivial, a badge of honor some people have pointed out.

Kids, whether you like it or not, kids are more socially advanced and intelligent (albeit lazy in some ways). Thats why they're able to be in 100 clubs and 50 sports and work part time and all that jazz. They'll see through violence for what it is. If a good amount of teachers can't handle being fair with just "time outs and detentions" then it'll be worse when violence is part of the equation.

 

[Hammer]

Very good question and a complicated answer.

I was raised in a very strict household. And my dad allowed the principle to paddle me in elementary school. In Jr. High I believe it was 7th grade the vice principle who was known for being a racist told me he was going to spank me. I told him in so many words that was not going to happen, and that if any spanking was to be done my dad would do it. So I got 3 days suspension and a beat down from dad (which i deserved) I gotone day for the original offense and 2 days for offensive name calling to the asst principle.

Now my views on my Daughter being punished by the school system and it's employees. Not gonna happen as long as I have a breath in my body. I do not trust the administrators, teachers, or any body else for that matter to discipline my child. If it needs to be done, i'll do it, and a better job of it then they had planned. If my daughter (who is 15 btw and has no discipline issues and makes A's and B's) does do something wrong, suspend her, make her write lines, stay after school, etc..... but do not lay a hand on her. The school system would be the first ones to call CPS on me if my daughter even said I beat her, so why would I allow them to do the same? With tenure and unions so prevalent among schools, I do not trust that if things got "out of hand" the one who dealt out the punishment would be dealt with accordingly and would have union representation. So I don't even go there, and do not allow it. The school system sends me each year a paper to sign that in small print states they reserve the right to issue corporal punishment, and each year I send them it back with a certified letter stating they do not have that right.


edit, I know the avatar does look strange in this topic, but know that it is there just as a joke and not how I run my household.

 

[rambone]

Rambone,

You've identified the problems with education as you see it.

Now give us the detailed solutions to fix it.

And remember...your plan for education must fit everyone.

• Abolish the Department of Education.
• Privatize all public schools.
• Give taxpayers their money back.
• Get rid of compulsory education laws.
• Abolish gun-free-zones in schools.
• If you want your kid to go to boot camp, pick a strict school.
• If you want your kid to hate guns, pick a school that has anti-gun policies.
• If you want to teach your kid your values, home school, and save money.
• Sit back and watch the total anarchy ensue.

After those policy changes happen, I personally would pick a school without tenure policy and that is non-unionized. And I'd pick a school that doesn't allow prison style searches of kids, dogs sniffing lockers and cars, and metal detectors at the gates. Ideally the teachers would be allowed and encouraged to CC. I don't need any of my preferences forced on everybody by law. You pick the school that suits you, and pay for it yourself.

Socialized education is like any socialized service; bloated, inefficient, and unfair. The Public School system has about as much chance of being "fixed" as Obamacare does -- it needs to be repealed. You can't fix a few details and correct the root of the problem.

You can't make a one-size fits all system, and expect everyone to pay for it and like it. Some kids can handle being lined up in neat little rows and ordered as to how they can move their fingers. Other kids succeed using an alternate approach. Neither is wrong, but you should only have to pay for one.

 

[turnandshoot4]

I picked up a PS90 today. Man those are compact!

 

[Hammer]

I picked up a PS90 today. Man those are compact!

And that is relevant to this thread how?

 

[ghostinthewood]

Rubber bullets for those hooligans.

 

[Benny]

And that is relevant to this thread how?

Maybe he voted for the last option.

None of these / other

 

[stormryder]

I personally have gotten spanked 1 time in Kindergarden, and that was all it took.
I found out fast that I wasn't gonna get away with anything there.

I don't have kids yet.
However, If my child was going to be punished for something.
I want to be informed of what was done, the type of punishment, and have the option to be there when it is administered.
Or have it witnessed/overseen by the Princpal or other School Official.
No bruising or lasting damage.

 

[jeremy]

Kids, whether you like it or not, kids are more socially advanced and intelligent (albeit lazy in some ways). Thats why they're able to be in 100 clubs and 50 sports and work part time and all that jazz.

LOL...
Really More Socially Advanced and More Intelligent?!
No they are not.

If that was even remotely true, there would be little to use for Dinosaurs like me now would there...

They'll see through violence for what it is.

Again I highly doubt it.

but then again WTF do I know I am just old and stupid...

 

[ghostinthewood]

LOL...
Really More Socially Advanced and More Intelligent?!
No they are not.

If that was even remotely true, there would be little to use for Dinosaurs like me now would there...

Again I highly doubt it.

but then again WTF do I know I am just old and stupid...

Actually there have been several psychological surveys and studies and whatnot proving that...

Even without that common sense would tell you that over time, kids have heard and have been taught about enough experiences that they would become more advanced. Look at adult society, it is more advanced than the adult society of the 1800's. Its not much of a stretch at all to say the same could happen with children. lol. There isn't a need to go to Dinosaurs. My 50yr old dad still can't text message worth a damn. I fix the majority of the computer problems, politics are more involved than they used to be so kids are getting involved at younger ages, kids are having sex earlier because of the advancement of society more than the teletube. Kids will always do dumb ****, they have to learn from it. However the dumb **** they do (in general, not the stuff they do on the news) wouldnt have been considered dumb upteen years ago. For example, not knowing what fire was back in your day would be considered dumb. Nowadays, not knowing how to get around the school computers restrictions would be considered dumb. Another good example is more personal. My dad used to teach math while I was in elementary school and became a principal before I got out. By the time I got in HS and needed help with my homework he didnt know any of it. Not because he didn't use math, or because he didn't remember what he was taught, but because the standards changed (again).

Even though old people like to retain their importance by *****ing about kids losing "face time" with people they are also more socially advanced. This point is most easily argued through the advancement of communications. I have friends in South Africa, the UK, Japan, Australia, etc. that I could crash at if I was stranded there for some reason. Probably could find a friend in just about any state as well. Transportation is another factor. We don't ride horses or dodo birds or whatever they did in your time. I've been more places by myself, than any Disney vacation or fantasy people have involving their families. Thats not just because of one thing either. Football camps up state, basketball camps in NY, paintball in Utah, girlfriend's family in MI. Dodo birds can't fly that far.

Because of that, kids are seeing through violence for what it is. Similar to women abuse, many children are shooting, among other things, their abusive fathers. That is obviously a new "trend" (more common than it used to be although not common).

Like I pointed out earlier, I am for an occasional spanking or other forms of painful punishments that don't involve abuse, but bragging about abuse is something for simpletons. I live in an advanced American society. Us bipeds quit caring about pissing contests awhile ago...

 

[jeremy]

Actually there have been several psychological surveys and studies and whatnot proving that...

Even without that common sense would tell you that over time, kids have heard and have been taught about enough experiences that they would become more advanced. Look at adult society, it is more advanced than the adult society of the 1800's. Its not much of a stretch at all to say the same could happen with children. lol. There isn't a need to go to Dinosaurs. My 50yr old dad still can't text message worth a damn. I fix the majority of the computer problems, politics are more involved than they used to be so kids are getting involved at younger ages, kids are having sex earlier because of the advancement of society more than the teletube. Kids will always do dumb ****, they have to learn from it. However the dumb **** they do (in general, not the stuff they do on the news) wouldnt have been considered dumb upteen years ago. For example, not knowing what fire was back in your day would be considered dumb. Nowadays, not knowing how to get around the school computers restrictions would be considered dumb. Another good example is more personal. My dad used to teach math while I was in elementary school and became a principal before I got out. By the time I got in HS and needed help with my homework he didnt know any of it. Not because he didn't use math, or because he didn't remember what he was taught, but because the standards changed (again).

Even though old people like to retain their importance by *****ing about kids losing "face time" with people they are also more socially advanced. This point is most easily argued through the advancement of communications. I have friends in South Africa, the UK, Japan, Australia, etc. that I could crash at if I was stranded there for some reason. Probably could find a friend in just about any state as well. Transportation is another factor. We don't ride horses or dodo birds or whatever they did in your time. I've been more places by myself, than any Disney vacation or fantasy people have involving their families. Thats not just because of one thing either. Football camps up state, basketball camps in NY, paintball in Utah, girlfriend's family in MI. Dodo birds can't fly that far.

Because of that, kids are seeing through violence for what it is. Similar to women abuse, many children are shooting, among other things, their abusive fathers. That is obviously a new "trend" (more common than it used to be although not common).

Like I pointed out earlier, I am for an occasional spanking or other forms of painful punishments that don't involve abuse, but bragging about abuse is something for simpletons. I live in an advanced American society. Us bipeds quit caring about pissing contests awhile ago...

To be young again!!!

 

[buckstopshere]

I'll be damned if anyone will lay a hand on my children. No way, no how.

I don't subscribe to corporal punishment in my own home except as a last ditch effort for repeatedly violating the same rule and I'm the one who dishes it out.

The effect: My girls have never had a disciplinary issue at school and have had straight A's since Kindergarten. I run a tight ship in my house and don't need anyone else's help in this regard. They are my responsibility and my wife and I are teaching them the right things.

I don't consider teachers to be strangers. I know and know well all my daughters teachers. I stay in contact with them a couple times a month so I know what's going on and have always asked them to do the same with me.

Now, this works well for us. We have been blessed with very good girls who are even tempered, respectful, and smart. They do well with our disciplinary techniques. Having said that, I don't judge the way anyone else raises their kids. If corporal punishment works for you and your family, go for it. If you're cool with letting the school issue some this type of discipline, more power to you. But for my girls, ain't happenin!

 

[ghostinthewood]

To be young again!!!

Brilliant.

I'll be damned if anyone will lay a hand on my children. No way, no how.

I don't subscribe to corporal punishment in my own home except as a last ditch effort for repeatedly violating the same rule and I'm the one who dishes it out.

The effect: My girls have never had a disciplinary issue at school and have had straight A's since Kindergarten. I run a tight ship in my house and don't need anyone else's help in this regard. They are my responsibility and my wife and I are teaching them the right things.

I don't consider teachers to be strangers. I know and know well all my daughters teachers. I stay in contact with them a couple times a month so I know what's going on and have always asked them to do the same with me.

Now, this works well for us. We have been blessed with very good girls who are even tempered, respectful, and smart. They do well with our disciplinary techniques. Having said that, I don't judge the way anyone else raises their kids. If corporal punishment works for you and your family, go for it. If you're cool with letting the school issue some this type of discipline, more power to you. But for my girls, ain't happenin!

Reasonable

 

[Coach]

The way our government institutions are set up, this is pretty optimistic. Parents are lucky if they know all the classes their kids are in; let alone know each individual teacher for each individual class. Then add in the administration, substitute teachers, teacher's aides, security guards, the hall monitors, the guards overseeing workout time in the yard, and anyone else remotely likely to want a piece of your kid. Any parent who can name every one of these people is really on the ball. The fact remains though, you don't know what they are like when they get mad, you don't know what they are capable of, you don't know how they treat their own kids -- they are still strangers.

It is your kid, and it is your job as a parent to know what is going on and who is doing what, and there is not a school out there trying to hide the teacher and the schedule from parents. Go to Back to School Night, go in before or after school and walk the halls and makes some contact. Email, classroom website, references from other parents. It is not that hard to be up to speed.

You must be imagining a school where you stay with one teacher the whole day. Kids move around from teacher to teacher in many of these institutions. Often there are thousands of kids in one building and hundreds of staff. Everything I said for (1) applies here.

And when you say "you are wrong," how exactly do you you come to that conclusion? We have compulsory education -- parents don't exactly get much of a choice in the matter, and I've already made the case for why not everyone has the option to home school (see below). The laws are wrong; they'd be even worse if people were forced to send kids to a place they fear and hate, and people in charge are hitting them.

By wrong I meant not living up to parental responsibility. If a child is allowed to be in a place where the parent is uninformed or does not trust the people in charge that is not living up to your responsibility as a parent. That is wrong.

The deck is stacked against us. In government, it takes a force of nature to get the "bad apples" removed. Not to mention -- You've heard of unions right? The abusers get protected by their mob leaders.
Tenured teachers get fired. They can get fired. There is due process but it is done, and can be done. Teachers unions have been made out to be this all powerful force by the media and the republican state office holders lately and that is blown way out of proportion. Abusers are not protected, many times they are wrongly accused but most people don't care about that.
​

And does the public seem particularly awake or active in school politics? Probably not. Kids don't deserve to get whooped on by some twisted gym teacher on a power trip, because the public is in a medicated TV-trance and won't take an interest. It isn't the kids' fault, but they are the ones who would be getting the whoopin's.

You don't have to get a teacher fired to have your student in another class. It does not take the public it takes a father and a mother being firm and rational. Public has little to do with the raising of a child. But there is plenty of control for the parent in this day and age.

There is no forced public education in the state of Indiana, don't like it homeschool. Don't like our taxes try another country. There are always options.

I am not advocating beatings and abuse in anyway shape or form, but hands on discipline, and a little swinging of the board of education absolutely.

 

[steveh_131]

There is no forced public education in the state of Indiana, don't like it homeschool. Don't like our taxes try another country. There are always options.

You made some sense up to this point.

But that statement is completely ignorant.

If you don't like him exercising his right to criticize current policies then why don't YOU try another country. There are always other options.

 

[Coach]

You made some sense up to this point.

But that statement is completely ignorant.

If you don't like him exercising his right to criticize current policies then why don't YOU try another country. There are always other options.

I don't have a problem with him speaking his mind. I don't agree with him on this topic. He asked for discussion I was trying to provide it.

Not one single person in this state is forced to send their kids to these "awful" public schools. Anyone is allowed by the "repressive" state to educate their kids at home.

Our country is full of flaws and needs fixed in some areas, and maybe an overhaul, but I don't see anything better out there.

 

[steveh_131]

Not one single person in this state is forced to send their kids to these "awful" public schools. Anyone is allowed by the "repressive" state to educate their kids at home.

Our country is full of flaws and needs fixed in some areas, and maybe an overhaul, but I don't see anything better out there.

We ARE forced to fund these schools through our tax dollars whether we use them or not. And educating at home isn't exactly simple or cheap with all the absurd government restrictions on it.

The fact that you don't see anything better out there doesn't mean we should not discuss or advocate something better.

Telling him to go find another country to live in is NOT a constructive way to discuss ANY topic. It's petty and ridiculous.

 

[Coach]

We ARE forced to fund these schools through our tax dollars whether we use them or not. And educating at home isn't exactly simple or cheap with all the absurd government restrictions on it.

The fact that you don't see anything better out there doesn't mean we should not discuss or advocate something better.

Telling him to go find another country to live in is NOT a constructive way to discuss ANY topic. It's petty and ridiculous.

ok.