Coronovirus IV

[jamil]

@Hough

Ah, right.

I avoid the Trump daily improv exercises.

Eh. It's news. There is often information transferred notwithstanding stupid questions.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

It is odd, but it is an attempt to work within the framework of slowly restarting after the Wuhan coronavirus lock-down. Assuming no significant spikes in infections, things will continue to ease up and this particular rule will disappear and those blocks will open up to normal traffic as people can go into the restaurants.

That is my hope for sure!

 

[Tombs]

Your logic is still flawed. No one has said that breathing is unacceptable. You're the only one who's saying that. What people are saying is that where you are when you breathe, is at least a little less acceptable if by being there, you're putting someone else at risk. How much less acceptable? It depends on the certainty that you will harm someone else by your presence. Obviously if you have something very deadly and very contagious, it's way less acceptable. Hopefully you have no problem seeing that concept if it were someone with AIDS intentionally trying to pass it on. Of course it's proportional to the harm and the risk.

With Covid-19 harm is nowhere near as certain. But because it has such a long incubation period, and the consequences for some people can be dire, that probability of harm is > 0. And is at least enough in the expert's estimation that there exists a personal responsibility placed on individuals to take some precautions when we're in public spaces. Now, I'm not saying that I think government should have shut things down, or that they should force people to wear masks, or whatever. That's not my conclusion here. My conclusionwas that your logic was flawed. In the post I replied to you were cheerfully knocking down the straw man you had erected yourself.

We're a lot closer on this issue. I know some panties will be twisted with this comment, but I'll say it. We may have outgrown some parts of the constitution. There's not really a physical public square anymore. Speech forbidden is no less dangerous to a society if it's forbidden by private companies. If 3 or 4 companies can shut down free speech it's still speech lost. I'm not sure what can or should be done about that without even more overreach by government. But it's a problem that needs solved.

You might say my logic is flawed, but I don't see you deconstructing where the flaw is.

So you say breathing isn't harmful. Okay
But breathing in a specific area is harmful. Okay
Rationally, what follows that statement? Breathing is harmful.
With a 2 week incubation period, everyone is potentially a threat, and it is unreasonable to have everyone taking the same measures they would as if they were infected.

As I've already said, if someone feels like they're incurring excessive risk by going out right now because they fear people breathing in certain places, then they should stay in their homes. Those at risk are far fewer in number than those who the virus poses very little risk to. It is absurdly selfish of people to expect the world to stop for them. This generation has already dealt with the economic fallout of the internet bubble, 9/11, the GFC, the housing crisis, and now this.

There's also plenty of measures businesses can take to cut the risk levels down to nill, without being obnoxious, as most have already done.

And I'd never call the government fighting for our rights an overreach. If anything, that's their purpose, they just are in dereliction most of the time.

 

[jamil]

You might say my logic is flawed, but I don't see you deconstructing where the flaw is.

So you say breathing isn't harmful. Okay
But breathing in a specific area is harmful. Okay
Rationally, what follows that statement? Breathing is harmful.
With a 2 week incubation period, everyone is potentially a threat, and it is unreasonable to have everyone taking the same measures they would as if they were infected.

As I've already said, if someone feels like they're incurring excessive risk by going out right now because they fear people breathing in certain places, then they should stay in their homes. Those at risk are far fewer in number than those who the virus poses very little risk to. It is absurdly selfish of people to expect the world to stop for them. This generation has already dealt with the economic fallout of the internet bubble, 9/11, the GFC, the housing crisis, and now this.

There's also plenty of measures businesses can take to cut the risk levels down to nill, without being obnoxious, as most have already done.

And I'd never call the government fighting for our rights an overreach. If anything, that's their purpose, they just are in dereliction most of the time.

There it is. The flawed statement. This is ridiculous. That's not a logical conclusion you've made. It's a leap of logic. And pretty much a strawman that you've erected either consciously or not.

 

[Mikey1911]

[video=youtube_share;-wntX-a3jSY]https://youtu.be/-wntX-a3jSY[/video]

I do hope the people of New York do just that.
Do what boston did many moons ago. The mayor is NOT the king!

Funny thing is that if she were still alive, Carrie’s political beliefs would have her supporting the Deblasio/Cuomo axis right down the line.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

So I pretty much stay out of this thread since it’s turned into debate class, masks effectiveness, number estimations, etc. I’ll still drop in and see if there’s any new news occasionally, otherwise I’m kinda over the covid crap honestly.

BUT, we’ve had 2 people at work in the past week test positive for it. Both of them were told to stay home for 2 weeks. Saturday I call one to see how he’s doing. He didn’t answer and called me later that night, he didn’t hear his phone ring cause he was at the skate park with his kid. WTF

2nd guy, guy at work comes in today and says he saw him at tractor supply walking around. No mask, nothing. Tested positive. Out walking around the store cause he was bored.

Im done ranting now.

 

[Tombs]

There it is. The flawed statement. This is ridiculous. That's not a logical conclusion you've made. It's a leap of logic. And pretty much a strawman that you've erected either consciously or not.

Then why don't you explain how I'm wrong rather than just telling me I'm wrong, and leaving me to make the same argument over and over?

So I pretty much stay out of this thread since it’s turned into debate class, masks effectiveness, number estimations, etc. I’ll still drop in and see if there’s any new news occasionally, otherwise I’m kinda over the covid crap honestly.

BUT, we’ve had 2 people at work in the past week test positive for it. Both of them were told to stay home for 2 weeks. Saturday I call one to see how he’s doing. He didn’t answer and called me later that night, he didn’t hear his phone ring cause he was at the skate park with his kid. WTF

2nd guy, guy at work comes in today and says he saw him at tractor supply walking around. No mask, nothing. Tested positive. Out walking around the store cause he was bored.

Im done ranting now.

Would be interesting to see if they could be taken to civil court for damages to who ever gets sick. Since they knew they were infected and were not taking measures to prevent the spread, I think that might be a winnable case, lol.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Then why don't you explain how I'm wrong rather than just telling me I'm wrong, and leaving me to make the same argument over and over?



Would be interesting to see if they could be taken to civil court for damages to who ever gets sick. Since they knew they were infected and were not taking measures to prevent the spread, I think that might be a winnable case, lol.

Im not sure if I would like the road that could potentially open up, but they should have some sort of repercussions. It’s just selfish, imo.

 

[nonobaddog]

Would be interesting to see if they could be taken to civil court for damages to who ever gets sick. Since they knew they were infected and were not taking measures to prevent the spread, I think that might be a winnable case, lol.

Or give him an Article 15 for disobeying an order.

 

[red_zr24x4]

Then why don't you explain how I'm wrong rather than just telling me I'm wrong, and leaving me to make the same argument over and over?



Would be interesting to see if they could be taken to civil court for damages to who ever gets sick. Since they knew they were infected and were not taking measures to prevent the spread, I think that might be a winnable case, lol.

How would this be a winnable case? You would have to prove where you caught it, when you caught it,, and that he was the only one there that had it.

 

[churchmouse]

How would this be a winnable case? You would have to prove where you caught it, when you caught it,, and that he was the only one there that had it.

Bingo.

 

[Ingomike]

We're a lot closer on this issue. I know some panties will be twisted with this comment, but I'll say it. We may have outgrown some parts of the constitution. There's not really a physical public square anymore. Speech forbidden is no less dangerous to a society if it's forbidden by private companies. If 3 or 4 companies can shut down free speech it's still speech lost. I'm not sure what can or should be done about that without even more overreach by government. But it's a problem that needs solved.

The problem actually is caused by government overreach. Section 230 of the CDA created the monster. Just a simple tweak would fix it. Might be a nightmare for the owner of this site, but it would fix it. Make all sites declare whether they are publishers or an open conduit. Publishers would be held to the same standards as all other media including news, entertainment, sports, even religious. A conduit would be held to the same standard as the phone company for liability for what users say on their lines.

Right now google gets the benefit of both ways, acts as a publisher by using editorial judgment, while getting legal immunity for the information they display. We need to stop this now.

 

[Ingomike]

How would this be a winnable case? You would have to prove where you caught it, when you caught it,, and that he was the only one there that had it.

Bingo.

You are both right on the merits. Being right on the merits can make a guy like Hough a lot o dough...

That is what business America is scared sh**less about, the attorneys have them by the short and curlies...

 

[jamil]

Then why don't you explain how I'm wrong rather than just telling me I'm wrong, and leaving me to make the same argument over and over?

I did. You said I'm saying something I didn't say. And I told you that you said something that I didn't say. And then you said the thing I didn't say had the logical conclusion you wanted. And I told you why that doesn't work. And then you doubled down by saying again that I'm saying something I didn't say. You're the one rinsing and repeating bull****. Say the thing I'm actually saying. And THEN try to get your desired logical conclusion.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Which Abbott test do you mean? The month timeline suggests you are referring to their two bad tests.

They definitely had problems with their virus swab test. They rushed out their first serum antibody test like everybody else did and definitely had more problems.
Then they came out with their second serum antibody test. The only one I am interested in is this second antibody test. The other two tests have been shown to be bad enough that any results would be useless.

the rapid molecular one, not antibody. it requires a high viral load so in sick people it's probably good but likely worthless in people with minimal to no symptoms

 

[hoosierdoc]

A better question that I would like to know would be what is the best SARS-COV-2 Antibody IgG test out there? And would you trust it to say definitively that the sample did or did not have the antibodies in it? (Provided the sample was not from a true borderline case during the early production phase of the antibodies)

that I don't know. someone else pointed out so many are out there. kinda pointless to test for other coronaviruses, needs to be specific to this one

 

[MCgrease08]

I'm starting to get bored on this long hiatus. I hope CoronaVirus season 2, Second Wave, is better than the first season.

 

[Ingomike]

I'm starting to get bored on this long hiatus. I hope CoronaVirus season 2, Second Wave, is better than the first season.

Not sure whether it will be better, but the ratings will be lower.

I got some crap in one of the threads about a similar point but here it goes again...

They cried wolf on this one and everyone knows it, though many won't admit it and some try to defend it. At least half the population will never believe their doom predictions again until the bodies really start to pile up for real, not just in some computer model...

 

[actaeon277]

NYC Mayor Bill de Blasio seems to be growing frustrated that people in his city are ignoring his ongoing lockdown and beginning to venture outside.

He is doubling down on threats of enforcement for those who dare go against his personal wishes.

De Blasio Warns Beach Swimmers Will ‘Be Taken Right Out Of The Water’



What these politicians like de Blasio, Whitmer, Newsome and others don't seem to understand is that these lockdown orders have only lasted this long because the people have allowed it. If half a million New Yorkers show up to go swimming, there is no way NYPD could drag everyone out of the water.

Fencing?
Someone should tell him, walls don't work.

 

[nonobaddog]

Not sure whether it will be better, but the ratings will be lower.

I got some crap in one of the threads about a similar point but here it goes again...

They cried wolf on this one and everyone knows it, though many won't admit it and some try to defend it. At least half the population will never believe their doom predictions again until the bodies really start to pile up for real, not just in some computer model...

Not sure why you got crap for that. I think you are very right!

The models have lost their credibility.