Coronovirus IV

[chipbennett]

You realize the reason this virus is causing such a panic is because it can live on surfaces for 9 to 14 days, right? How many friggin masks do you have to rotate that far for all the businesses that require you wear them?

[citation needed]

This is untrue.

It lives on surfaces in a range of hours to a few days, depending on the material. RNA has been found on surfaces after 9 - 14 days, but the presence of identifiable RNA is not the same thing as the presence of viable (i.e. living) virus.

 

[chipbennett]

The CDC says it is up to the doctor. Clearly, the doctor has a legitimate opinion on what the cause should be listed as.

This is a bureaucracy problem.

There are valid reasons to report: positive cases of COVID, deaths from COVID, deaths of people who were COVID positive but died from something else. That last group is sometimes also treated as "resolved" cases, I believe. (I'll throw in my personal gripe about non-reporting of critical cases, too.)

This just moves the goalposts. Some of us have been saying that COVID deaths are being over-counted. The reason for over-counting is irrelevant. The issue is that said over-counting influences public policy and public opinion.

 

[nonobaddog]

The reason for over-counting is irrelevant.

I can not agree with that. Fix the reason, fix the problem.

 

[KG1]

[citation needed]

This is untrue.

It lives on surfaces in a range of hours to a few days, depending on the material. RNA has been found on surfaces after 9 - 14 days, but the presence of identifiable RNA is not the same thing as the presence of viable (i.e. living) virus.

This is correct. Several hours up to 72 hours if memory serves me. Which means you should be able to rotate and then reuse masks after 4 days minimum.

 

[Ziggidy]

EDIT: nor with Indian call centers. Just got my first spam call since March.

They had to set up their new "work from home" policies. They must be all set up.

 

[T.Lex]

This just moves the goalposts.

What goalposts? It is a completely different problem. Frankly, a different game.

It is becoming more apparent that our national infectious disease health system does not have the ability to accurately gather or report data. On anything.

Part of that is a result of our decentralized federalism. State reporting is a patchwork, so reporting up to the feds is inconsistent.

Doesn't really matter, though. We've had a hundred years or so to figure out how to do this, and plenty of low-hanging fruit (like the annual flu) to get the processes mapped.

It just sucks that it takes something like this.

Some of us have been saying that COVID deaths are being over-counted.

Based on pure speculation.

We don't know if they're being over-counted or under-counted.

The reason for over-counting is irrelevant. The issue is that said over-counting influences public policy and public opinion.

The assumed over-counting.

I have long ago conceded no insight into what forms the nebulous "public opinion." As a country, we're so fractured right now that there's no point in referring to that in the singular.

In terms of public policy, as I look to our elected leaders, I think the most effective ones are those that admit they don't have sufficient data, but they are sharing what they have and explaining why they're making the decisions they are.

Being required to make difficult decisions with incomplete data is directly linked to becoming old enough to have to make difficult decisions.

 

[chipbennett]

What goalposts? It is a completely different problem. Frankly, a different game.

Not really, if the end result is a certain narrative about number of COVID deaths. (And do you deny that such a narrative is being driven?)

Based on pure speculation.

We don't know if they're being over-counted or under-counted.


The assumed over-counting.

No, not assumed. We have much, much anecdotal evidence of actual over-counting. We know, for a fact, that COVID deaths are being over-counted.

Now, might COVID deaths also be under-counted at the same time? Possibly. Based on... how did you put it? Oh, yes: pure speculation.

I have long ago conceded no insight into what forms the nebulous "public opinion." As a country, we're so fractured right now that there's no point in referring to that in the singular.

In terms of public policy, as I look to our elected leaders, I think the most effective ones are those that admit they don't have sufficient data, but they are sharing what they have and explaining why they're making the decisions they are.

Being required to make difficult decisions with incomplete data is directly linked to becoming old enough to have to make difficult decisions.

Again, the issue is the narrative, and how it impacts public opinion. Would the Karens (with all apologies to my mother and daughter, both named Karen, but who very much are not Karens) be Karening nearly as much if the real death toll were, say, 30 - 40K, rather than the reported 80K?

The narrative is intended to influence public opinion, and therefore, public response to policy decisions.

At the end of the day, the real number (that I suppose no one really knows) is the real number. The truth has no agenda.

 

[Tombs]

Would the Karens (with all apologies to my mother and daughter, both named Karen, but who very much are not Karens) be Karening nearly as much if the real death toll were, say, 30 - 40K, rather than the reported 80K?

By definition, a Karen is someone who'd be losing their mind over a handful of deaths and demanding immediate destruction of the constitution. Those types will always exist and are not really a factor here.

What is a factor is giving these institutions money for every covid case, ventilator used, and death. Unless you just enjoy burning $100 bills to light your cigar, you **** well will put down every death you come across as covid related.

As for the reason that the government decided to dangle that carrot with so little required evidence... Feel free to draw your own conclusions there.

 

[JettaKnight]

By definition, a Karen is someone who'd be losing their mind over a handful of deaths and demanding immediate destruction of the constitution. Those types will always exist and are not really a factor here.

Karen doesn't give a **** if anyone dies, as long as she gets her Merlot; and it better be at happy-hour pricing or she'll demand to see the manager.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

The hypothesis I read a few days ago that what we’re just emerging from is actually the dreaded 2nd wave just might have some validity. The more I read about this sort of stuff, the more I’m starting to believe that hypothesis is true.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/first...&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=fb-theblaze

 

[MCgrease08]

I'm kind of liking all these women wearing face masks in public. When you can only see their eyes it adds a little bit of mystery and makes it harder to spot the butter faces right away.

I'm starting to understand why Muslims like their women wearing burkas.

 

[JettaKnight]

I'm kind of liking all these women wearing face masks in public. When you can only see their eyes it adds a little bit of mystery and makes it harder to spot the butter faces right away.

I'm starting to understand why Muslims like their women wearing burkas.

Now if we can replace the 3X yoga pants with burkas...

 

[nonobaddog]

Not really, if the end result is a certain narrative about number of COVID deaths. (And do you deny that such a narrative is being driven?)



No, not assumed. We have much, much anecdotal evidence of actual over-counting. We know, for a fact, that COVID deaths are being over-counted.

Now, might COVID deaths also be under-counted at the same time? Possibly. Based on... how did you put it? Oh, yes: pure speculation.

You have the INGO bias that the chinese virus deaths are over-counted and your bias is showing. I believe that too but it isn't being open to pooh-pooh the case for under-counting so easily.
There is an awful lot of expert's opinions and statements and anecdotal evidence of under-counting too, not just speculation as you said. Especially early on when there were no tests to check on the reason for that spike in pneumonia deaths. Some of these deaths have associated samples saved so they can check them someday when they get a round tuit.

There was a graph earlier that showed a rise in expected deaths from all causes. The chinese virus was accounting for a part of that rise but the remainder was unexplained. This unexplained part could possibly be under-counting of chinese virus deaths.

The main thing we can say is the numbers are not accurate - unless the over-counting and under-counting miraculously and accidentally cancel each other out.

If we "follow the money" and look at the agenda of those most likely to lie about it - there is definitely a better case for over-counting.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

And for some positive news...

113-year-old Spanish woman survives coronavirus

https://news.yahoo.com/113-old-spanish-woman-survives-coronavirus-152514606.html

Survived the Spanish flu, two World Wars, the Spanish Civil War, and now Covid-19. Go granny, go!

 

[Ingomike]

I can not agree with that. Fix the reason, fix the problem.

Okay, we cut back hospital Medicare payments to the same as flu, that would be a good place to start...

 

[Tombs]

There was a graph earlier that showed a rise in expected deaths from all causes. The chinese virus was accounting for a part of that rise but the remainder was unexplained. This unexplained part could possibly be under-counting of chinese virus deaths.

I read a break down of that graph.

The key point the break down made, was that the graph didn't compensate for the population growth between years. The difference in population growth more than fills the void left.

 

[actaeon277]

[video=youtube_share;7RSDYtw7p30]https://youtu.be/7RSDYtw7p30[/video]

 

[nonobaddog]

I read a break down of that graph.

The key point the break down made, was that the graph didn't compensate for the population growth between years. The difference in population growth more than fills the void left.

Must be a different graph. Population growth would not have made any difference in the graph I mean.

 

[Bennettjh]

The hypothesis I read a few days ago that what we’re just emerging from is actually the dreaded 2nd wave just might have some validity. The more I read about this sort of stuff, the more I’m starting to believe that hypothesis is true.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/first...&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=fb-theblaze

I remember you posting about this. Makes sense(at least to me).

 

[nonobaddog]

Okay, we cut back hospital Medicare payments to the same as flu, that would be a good place to start...

Sure, that would be a good place. Have medicare pay for services rendered - not a bonus for a specific disease.