Coronovirus III

[BugI02]

shout it from the mountain tops

https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/2...itals-doctors-and-the-u-s-health-care-system/

'Experts' claiming the federal government needs to take over health care in order to 'fix' it coming from the left in 3 ... 2 ... 1

 

[Trigger Time]

I see a lot of "I get what trump is saying, here is an article or video describing what hes saying" He doesn't really know what hes saying most of the time. He is just taking everything hes heard behind the scenes and throwing it out there, which makes him look like a lunatic. he should stick to the facts, not the theories.

He is a effective manager. A leader. Trump doesnt have to know crap. He only needs to bring together the most effective team who does know and then execute the mission.
Seems like he does well at bringing the right people together and getting stuff done. He's accomplished more than any president that I have studied or been alive to witness.

 

[drillsgt]

Worth the time to read.

https://www.samaritanspurse.org/our-ministry/ny-diary/?utm_source=FY20DiaryEmailA&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=m_YCOV-20E5&utm_content=read-cta-button

I just sent them a donation the other day.

 

[Trigger Time]

Funny. Mange isn't fatal, its treated with drugs and shampoo.

By contrast, look what happens when a shelter dog comes up with rabies...total euthanization of the exposed group. (source).

COVID-19 is a horrible way to die, not unlike rabies in that respect. Yes, the virus will "run its course", but we (as a collective) have to ability to alter that course...for better or worse. We don't know what the "inevitable" even is at this point...the devil may care attitude seems cavalier and foolish to me here, in this situation.

I'm not willing to sacrifice myself or my loved ones for a stock market rally. My life trumps your ideology. Isn't fewer dead better?

I have a simple solution for you to keep you safe. Stay home.
I hope you have a job you can work from home though because the government checks are not going to be coming forever.
I will be pissed if they continue this extra $600 a month BS for more than the first 2 months. Get people back to their jobs or get them out to find new ones. Open it all back up.
Some Americans are lazy pieces of crap with no integrity. They know exactly what they are doing. It's called milking it.
Starvation is not a pleasant way to die either. Neither is depression or suicide. This shutdown is a sham.

 

[nonobaddog]

No, actually I did mean what I said about the masks. The data related to mask use and infection is not that reliable. There is truth to protecting others if the wearer is sick but not necessarily vice versa. I'm especially critical of these homemade cloth masks, it pretty much boils down to the government saying we're not sure what to tell you but hey wear a mask lol. There's quite a lot of studies on pubmed related to this and i'm sure now we'll see even more. Here's a good randomized controlled trial I found comparing cloth masks to surgical masks:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25903751/

A recent commentary regarding cloth masks and Covid-19

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1422.long

A recent meta-analyses for mask use and Covid-19

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10....e91eb2b27e4f044e1ee3f896&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

In the end wearing a mask won't hurt but understand it may just provide a false sense of security.

A mask is a mask. We don't have enough masks. So some people use a piece of cloth.
In no way does this turn a piece of cloth into a mask.

 

[BugI02]

^^This is where I am too. It is pointless to "save lives" by destroying their economic lives, but that is what we are doing if we don't open up soon. Let business owners and customers decide, like free adults, what risks they are willing to take. At risk people do the same.

This. I know, personally, I am in no hurry to sit in crowded airplanes or theaters or restaurants or pubs - whether the governor allows me to or not. I would like simple on demand anti-body testing, though to assess my own relative risk of infection

Whether I want to maintain social distancing, and by how much, should be a personal decision, not a one size fits all policy forced on everyone

 

[BugI02]

Hmmm Republican President and Senate spending trillions of dollars and they are small government?

These are strange times.

You of course think it would be different with a Democrat president, no? They've always been the party of fiscal responsibility

Not possible they would spend as much or more, just predominantly on people who don't work and don't want to? [Hint: See Gavin Newsome's spending priorities in his state relief program]

 

[BugI02]

Sounds like a great Mantra just like "From my cold dead hands" or "Molon Labe".

However, reality is much different. Just look around....lots of complainers....not a whole lot of action.

Liberals are much better at protesting. They shut down highways.

Conservatives complain on forums.

Are you forgetting Virginia? Maybe the difference is it takes a major infringement to mobilize conservatives (because, you know, they have jobs and businesses) whereas the progressives will complain about anything/everything (and call in sick to Starbuck's in order to do so)

 

[HoughMade]

Funny. Mange isn't fatal, its treated with drugs and shampoo.

By contrast, look what happens when a shelter dog comes up with rabies...total euthanization of the exposed group. (source).

COVID-19 is a horrible way to die, not unlike rabies in that respect. Yes, the virus will "run its course", but we (as a collective) have to ability to alter that course...for better or worse. We don't know what the "inevitable" even is at this point...the devil may care attitude seems cavalier and foolish to me here, in this situation.

I'm not willing to sacrifice myself or my loved ones for a stock market rally. My life trumps your ideology. Isn't fewer dead better?

You are 100% free to isolate yourself and your loved ones in any way you see fit. No one is suggesting that you do not have that right.

 

[BugI02]

With your caveats its hard to disagree with you. The problem is they doesn't always seem to apply.

My issues with Trump has always been his communication skills.

I love the fact he will take on opponents directly without a lot of political doublespeak. I enjoy the tweets (most days).

I hate the fact that his use of the bully pulpit is so hit and miss. Not every thought needs to pass over the lips. Especially in crisis management.

I wish he would treat them more like a CEO on an earnings call.

The old 'If only Trump would be more like Bush or Romney ...' which always seems to forget that you actually wind up with a Bush or a Romney

I'll take a loud, crude, effective, successful president over the alternative

 

[foszoe]

That's a different concern than what the post I replied to mentioned.

I guess. Unless you're one of the people waiting on the empty OR's and rooms to open up.

 

[BugI02]

https://images.wsj.net/im-179655?width=1260&size=1.5

https://www.wsj.com/articles/forgot...avirus-lockdowns-11587720625?mod=hp_lead_pos5

Does this curve look familiar?


View attachment 86513

Did we shut down the economy?

 

[BugI02]

There are 6.7 million Hoosiers. (source)

Just 72,000 of us have been tested, with an 18% positive return. (source)

Doctors are continually reporting new symptoms and complications as their experience treating these patients grows. (source) (source)

I don't see how anyone can make sweeping assertions about the scope, impact, or future of this outbreak when everything we know only points to how little we know.

Here at INGO we like to throw around the idea that "it's not the odds, its the stakes".

The stakes? Death. The odds? Honestly, they don't look so hot either.

700 dead Hoosiers...so far. Keep yourself safe INGO, this is no time for foolish theatrics.

Good morning, Paul

I think the fundamental fallacy being exhibited is: On the one hand thinking you might be able to avoid getting this without a rational endgame for the strategy (how long is enough 3 months, 6 months, 12 months) while on the other hand thinking that the economic infrastructure that supports your ability to shelter in place (food production and delivery, manufacturing of other necessities including disinfecting supplies, medical supplies etc) can survive however long you think is necessary to hunker down

On the path we are currently on that does not seem to be the main chance. The choices would seem to be to exit lockdown in a controlled manner or exit lockdown when food and medical care have become so scarce as to force the issue. As smoke has noted, normalcy bias tends to insidiously influence people into thinking things will eventually go 'back to normal'

 

[BugI02]

I can find 7-up in the store. Campbell’s soup? Too many ignorant, selfish **********s think they need to buy up all the soup on the shelves.

Given the huge amount of sodium in one can, you would be far better off to make your own soup (unless hypertension turns out to be a cure)

 

[jamil]

There are 6.7 million Hoosiers. (source)

Just 72,000 of us have been tested, with an 18% positive return. (source)

Doctors are continually reporting new symptoms and complications as their experience treating these patients grows. (source) (source)

I don't see how anyone can make sweeping assertions about the scope, impact, or future of this outbreak when everything we know only points to how little we know.

Here at INGO we like to throw around the idea that "it's not the odds, its the stakes".

The stakes? Death. The odds? Honestly, they don't look so hot either.

700 dead Hoosiers...so far. Keep yourself safe INGO, this is no time for foolish theatrics.

There’s death either way. It is both. It is about odds and it is about consequences. I wrote some time ago that both sides have a point. I think one of the reasons that most people agree with the lockdown is that it is not apparent to what extent the cure is worse than the disease. But with the disease the downside is more unknown. We have theoretical possibilities of harm done to society that we’ve based on anecdotes, models, and incomplete information. The possible downside there, the theoretical bottom, seems to most people as deep as shorting a stock. It makes sense to want to mitigate that as much as possible because of the potential depths.

If we look at just the odds, on a purely intellectual level, the odds argument makes sense too. For the vast majority of people the cure, so far, impacts our lives way more than the disease. Most people who get it are asymptomatic. But most people regardless are negatively impacted. Tens of thousands have died. Tens of millions have lost their livelihoods. And unknown thousands have died as a result of the lockdown.

So far. It’s the fear of the unknown that mostly fuels the lock it down side. It seems reasonable to most people that we must spend more effort fighting the devil we don’t know than the devil we do know or think we know.

There is a point somewhere in the graph of possible actions vs consequences, where we would find an equilibrium, that is, the best outcome for the most people, while assuring our future as free people. That point, I’m sure is not on either extreme. It’s somewhere between “**** this, open the ***damn thing up now” and the “shut it down until I’m not afraid anymore” side. People don’t seem as eager to find that point as they are to find reasons to support what they already believe.

 

[nonobaddog]

Good morning, Paul

I think the fundamental fallacy being exhibited is: On the one hand thinking you might be able to avoid getting this without a rational endgame for the strategy (how long is enough 3 months, 6 months, 12 months) while on the other hand thinking that the economic infrastructure that supports your ability to shelter in place (food production and delivery, manufacturing of other necessities including disinfecting supplies, medical supplies etc) can survive however long you think is necessary to hunker down

On the path we are currently on that does not seem to be the main chance. The choices would seem to be to exit lockdown in a controlled manner or exit lockdown when food and medical care have become so scarce as to force the issue. As smoke has noted, normalcy bias tends to insidiously influence people into thinking things will eventually go 'back to normal'

Things ALWAYS go back to normal. It is just sometimes normal changes a little bit.

 

[Alpo]

My paradigm shifter is stuck in second gear. Please don't ask me to back up.

 

[Hoosier Carry]

I just sent them a donation the other day.

I have volunteered but have not donated. I need to make that a priority.

Hope this isn’t seen for the donation part of it, but just good news in tough times.

 

[foszoe]

Is the implication that 1917 more relevant to 2020 than 1968? If so why?
Which is more comparable to today, socially, economically, politically; 1917 or 1968?
Why were the curves significantly higher in New York versus other places?

Does this curve look familiar?


View attachment 86513

Did we shut down the economy?

 

[jamil]

Given the huge amount of sodium in one can, you would be far better off to make your own soup (unless hypertension turns out to be a cure)

A can of tomato soup with a bunch of other ingredients makes quick, reasonably tasty chili. I’m pushing 60 and my BP usually hovers around low 120s over low 80s. I’m fine for now. I’m trying to bike more. Maybe lose some weight. But mostly keep the lung capacity up and the circulation going in case I get this ****. Or hell. That “mystery disease” that they talked about hit our house in late December. A day or two of fever and fatigue, several days of intense coughing. Maybe I’ve already had it. Maybe I have immunity. Maybe I can say **** y’all losers who live in fear. I’m INVINCIBLE!!! I dare go to the car wash unprotected!

if you wish to infer some purple text in that, feel free.