Coronovirus III

[chipbennett]

I feel like the monkey in the middle at the moment. I have done the same to "studies" supporting the use of it as well. Why? Because I want to see actual science. No cheer leading or a drive buy shooting but science.

hydroxychloroquine can screw you up for life. That is a fact. It does however work well if you have malaria. Does it work for covid19? Show me the science. Not an er doctor who gave it to 6 patients that recovered in 7-10 days. Not some bs crap about it killing patients who where already near death. I have seen some clinical trials ended due to bad neurological outcomes(Switzerland,Brazil,and in the USA). I have also seen some that showed with zinc it may actually be effective if given early. It needs further study. When we have good science I will have a better opinion either way, but not before.

On this point, you and I agree 100%. I want to know what objective science says, not agenda-driven bias (one way or the other). My agenda (in which I have a vested interest, as it involves my work) is seeing as many people successfully treated with safe, quality treatments as possible.

 

[chipbennett]

2019 data will be available in around 3 months, this is normal. 2020 data will not be available until the summer of 2021.

I am not going to argue about covid19 deaths. It is both over counted and under counted....honestly depending on the mood and what message is being pushed at the time(less to do with political parties at some points,at others that is the driving factor).

A fair point, that you and T.Lex share. My only disagreement is that the counting of COVID19 deaths is clearly being used to drive an agenda/bias in this chart, and as such, that counting is germane.

 

[smokingman]

I think that graph presents the data in a very odd way, which causes me to dismiss it. It doesn't provide the annual totals. And, for some reason 2017-2018 was picked, but the "Weeks" axis starts at week 1?

It may not be cherry-picking data, but if they had to work that hard to present certain things, my skepticism increases.

The weeks thing is a form the CDC uses. It is not anything to distort the chart or information. 2019 data is not yet available.

I do not think it is a bad chart,and represents visually what is actually happening fairly well if only from a snap shot in time view.

 

[T.Lex]

The weeks thing is a form the CDC uses. It is not anything to distort the chart or information. 2019 data is not yet available.

I do not think it is a bad chart,and represents visually what is actually happening fairly well if only from a snap shot in time view.

It seems the 2018-2019 should be available (although I believe the 2017 season was particularly bad). It isn't even the timeliness of the comparators - obviously the 1957 timeframe is "old."

It just seems that the data is not laid out in an intuitive way. Along with chip's points, even including the totals for those "years" would be helpful for context.

 

[chipbennett]

The weeks thing is a form the CDC uses. It is not anything to distort the chart or information. 2019 data is not yet available.

I do not think it is a bad chart,and represents visually what is actually happening fairly well if only from a snap shot in time view.

Preliminary data are available. I've seen 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 charted elsewhere.

 

[smokingman]

Preliminary data are available. I've seen 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 charted elsewhere.

2019 is not yet available.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

 

[T.Lex]

Total aside.

I know the CDC is valuable and has an important role. Sorta like the Pentagon, they have an important job to do every day, and they also have to take care of big problems that happen quickly in a dynamic environment.

Having said that, their handling of statistics and reporting is bad. It just is.

I can maybe accept being bad at that if they were REALLY good at the "disease control" part. But, I'm kinda not convinced that they're that good at that, either.

Probably not a great time to be critical, but things like this happen and weaknesses are revealed.

 

[jamil]

I understand your point, but I disagree that it means anything. If I posted a story about someone who took every precaution they could but still caught the virus and died, would it mean anything more or less than this guy’s situation? Would anyone think it was proof of anything? Or that lockdowns should be lifted since people can still get it anyway? I think if it was a story about a large group of protestors all getting it, I would understand the irony. One guy who criticized the virus response and then died from it is just an anecdote for one side of the debate to hold up and wave at the other.

Sure. It would mean it's a data point of evidence that it's possible to take every precaution and still get the virus. That's not a lot but it's not nothing. It certainly isn't more than it is. It isn't useful background for any policies action. I'm trying not to side with a side. Sides aren't right or wrong because of the side itself or the ideology of the side. What's real and what's not real is what I want to focus on. It's not useful to hold it up as a debate point. It's useful to acknowledge it happened, and think about how his feelings about our reaction to it might have changed.

 

[Ingomike]

I keep seeing this posted, like people are getting a big laugh out him dying. For every guy like him, at least the same number died who took every precaution and still got it. The fact he criticized the lockdowns means nothing.

• You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jsharmon7 again.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

 

[T.Lex]

Irony is one thing the "news" looks for.

Man bites dog.

Enemies become allies.

Underdog wins.

Dude who thinks everyone should risk getting coronavirus gets coronavirus and dies. That's a cautionary tale, at least, with a heavy dose of irony.

But yeah, that kind of thing shouldn't drive policy, but can be used as an example of why certain policies are disfavored.

 

[JettaKnight]

Repped. I agree. Clearly he was wrong about the virus, but must we treat his death as some sort of moral victory?

If he was a gun control advocate, we would, and have.

If he was a democrat we would, and have.




I'm just sayin'.

 

[T.Lex]

Reuters story that US deaths have "doubled" in a little more than 7 days.

https://news.trust.org/item/20200421211344-sn3xj

Left out (at least of the version I just read) is that the doubling is UP from 4 days at the beginning of the month. In fact, the doubling rate is steadily increasing. (I technically have it at 9 days, and it has been there for the last couple days).

The increasing deaths in new hotspots is disconcerting. But, it also shows that vast parts of the country do have it under control/have capacity. There will be hotspots probably for the rest of the year, but we're figuring out how to treat this better.

 

[OurDee]

"Dude who thinks everyone should risk getting coronavirus gets coronavirus and dies. That's a cautionary tale, at least, with a heavy dose of irony." He's not hipocritical.

 

[MCgrease08]

Probably not a great time to be critical, but things like this happen and weaknesses are revealed.

When the tide goes out you can see who has been skinny dipping. - Warren Buffett

 

[T.Lex]

"Dude who thinks everyone should risk getting coronavirus gets coronavirus and dies. That's a cautionary tale, at least, with a heavy dose of irony." He's not hipocritical.

He was probably a fine human being. That kind of demise is a combination of arguable decision-making and bad luck.

 

[HoughMade]

Repped. I agree. Clearly he was wrong about the virus, but must we treat his death as some sort of moral victory?

What did he say about the virus that was wrong? I'm curious.

One can be against the shutdowns and still get the disease.

Uncomfortable point people don't seem to want to talk about: unless there is a vaccine soon, millions of more people will have to get the virus before we can stop living out lives primarily centered around the virus. Some will die.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

What did he say about the virus that was wrong? I'm curious.

One can be against the shutdowns and still get the disease.

Uncomfortable point people don't seem to want to talk about: unless there is a vaccine soon, millions of more people will have to get the virus before we can stop living out lives primarily centered around the virus. Some will die.

I get the sense that there’s still a majority that still believe continuing the lock down until that time is the best course to follow.

(I’m still betting that roughly correlates to those still employed or drawing a check every month.)

 

[smokingman]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"The superior man is the providence of the inferior. He is eyes for the blind, strength for the weak, and a shield for the defenseless. He stands erect by bending above the fallen. He rises by lifting others."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Robert Green Ingersoll.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Why post this quote in this thread? Because it clearly states some basic ideas of how I try to live my life and what I have to say next is not pleasant.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]It is over. Life as you knew it is gone for now. Our supply lines collapsed before we had 10 cases of covid19 in this country. Our financial system is now priced by a central bank(example the Federal Reserve started buying oil ETFs this morning).Things like leisure travel are over for the foreseeable future. What forms the basis for our economy is changing, and rapidly.

Most state governments and municipalities are bankrupt. Unemployment never seen before with already underfunded pensions and much lower tax income saw to that. Most probably are just now figuring that out.

Our deficit at a federal level is increasing so rapidly. Things like the US Treasury providing the capitol for banks to lend money from the Federal Reserve discount window,and the treasury accepting liability for all the junk(even the junk bonds) the Federal Reserve is buying to "save us" will haunt us for generations if it does not lead to a collapse in our currency.

Nothing happening is normal. It is not an event that was even considered possible in financial planning at any level of government or banking.

This is not a disease that will disappear. I did a bit of homework. The average time for vaccine development is 8 years. If we make one that actually works before this mutates to make it ineffective it will be a miracle. I hope we can. I hope it gets here in record time and works perfectly. I am not counting on it though.

We as citizens have lost most any control we had. Our federal reserve is pricing our assets outright,even more so than what the soviet union was doing before it collapsed.Not even their banking system purchased bonds,stocks,and set commodities pricing to the level the FED is. Ours is buying the market even ETFs and B rated junk bonds along with state and municipal bonds.

Most want a return to normal. It is gone. It declined over decades,but more so since 2008.

What needs to be recognized by all is that we need to rebuild, not try to get back to where we were. It is a tough pill to swallow to be sure, but understanding it increases our chance of success.

We have the far right pushing socialism and socialist actions. I understand the need. I understand the human suffering. I would probably think it less horrible if the average citizen benefited by even the same percentage as banks and corporations, but they are not.

Even with all the help we will see the same model repeat most likely. Dividends,bonuses, more debt then corporate bankruptcy and restructuring. It has been a model of how to run business in America for a long time(Hostess ring any bells?). We need honesty to return. Companies run as companies,not purchased by equity firms to load them with debt while paying millions in bonuses and dividends only to sell them or dismantle them after they are bleed dry.

We need to return manufacturing. This crap of us having a service economy was a lie from the first day it was told. You can not base an economy on services. You have to make things,grow things,mine things,and invent things. When restaurants are 4% of GDP and Americans spend 48% of all food purchases at them we have a problem. [/FONT]​

https://medium.com/@CravyHQ/the-restaurant-industry-a-global-perspective-26cea1b91701

When government contributes more to GDP than anything else you have a broken system.
We had that in Q4 of 2019 officially. https://www.bea.gov/system/files/gdpind419-chart-01_0.png

.....to be continued.​

 

[HoughMade]

I get the sense that there’s still a majority that still believe continuing the lock down until that time is the best course to follow.

(I’m still betting that roughly correlates to those still employed or drawing a check every month.)

I get it, but flattening the curve beyond that which is necessary to allow medical resources to be available prolongs the pandemic...which has a cost in lives as well. Beyond that, acting like we never had issues with spending huge amounts of resources on people who were within 6 weeks of end-of-life before this.....c'mon.

Having a "one size fits all" remedy of shut-down across the country, or even across a state is...short sighted, to say the least.

...and I am sure you are right.

 

[smokingman]

What did he say about the virus that was wrong? I'm curious.

One can be against the shutdowns and still get the disease.

Uncomfortable point people don't seem to want to talk about: unless there is a vaccine soon, millions of more people will have to get the virus before we can stop living out lives primarily centered around the virus. Some will die.

He said it was a hoax and that it was not real.