Coronovirus III

[smokingman]

Repped. I agree. Clearly he was wrong about the virus, but must we treat his death as some sort of moral victory?

I hope that is not how people are seeing it. I hope they see it as a warning to not underestimate the worst pandemic we have faced in over 100 years,and to do what you can to protect yourself and your family.

I just read a preprint paper from South Korea. They found virus in spinal fluid(no big shock there as it crosses the blood brain barrier),but it is the first study I have read where it was found in bone marrow with effects similar to myelofibrosis. I also read the German paper doing follow ups on healthy mild cases,particularly a group of healthy sports divers(scuba) all of whom can no longer dive. All had mild cases,all recovered at least 5 weeks ago and all had ct scans of their lungs that showed permanent damage.

Both are concerning.

https://www.dw.com/en/covid-19-recovered-patients-have-partially-reduced-lung-function/a-52859671

CAN COVID-19 PATIENTS RETURN TO DIVING? - DIVE Magazine

 

[Thor]

New York, if you enjoy scum and villainy then that's your hive. Been there, done that, will never go back.

Most large population centers look like grand facades when viewed from the distance of their skylines, up close and personal they are wretched potpourris of stench, filth and crime. Have fun ignoring the surroundings. If you are tactical at all with your spidey senses up and your head on a swivel you will not have a moments rest within their confines.

No thanks, the current UN approved breeding grounds of disease are not for me.

 

[jamil]

I keep seeing this posted, like people are getting a big laugh out him dying. For every guy like him, at least the same number died who took every precaution and still got it. The fact he criticized the lockdowns means nothing.

Well, it doesn't mean nothing. It's sad that he died from it. There are no moral victories in this. But there's an irony there where it seems karma was unkind to him. I wouldn't disparage him at all for holding the view that he did prior to getting gravely ill. I'm thinking that before he got it, maybe it was impacting his life, and his mindset was geared to that. And then at the point where he had to go to the hospital, I'd put money on him having at least a little change in heart.

I think it was GFGT that first said in effect that your belief about our reaction to it will fall upon the lines of how it's impacting you. If it's hitting you financially, you're much more likely to be in the "it's the ****ing FLU! Let us get back to work!" If it's hitting your health, you're more likely to say, "shut'r down."

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I keep seeing this posted, like people are getting a big laugh out him dying. For every guy like him, at least the same number died who took every precaution and still got it. The fact he criticized the lockdowns means nothing.

Oh I believe this is written and posted and reposted and reposted precisely because of the growing push back to the shutdown orders. There is a divide there and the folks that believe we should remain locked down are (in my opinion) feel like we should remain so until hell freezes over, if need be. (In my small sphere of experience)They are the ones that are reposting this thing.

 

[jsharmon7]

Well, it doesn't mean nothing.

I understand your point, but I disagree that it means anything. If I posted a story about someone who took every precaution they could but still caught the virus and died, would it mean anything more or less than this guy’s situation? Would anyone think it was proof of anything? Or that lockdowns should be lifted since people can still get it anyway? I think if it was a story about a large group of protestors all getting it, I would understand the irony. One guy who criticized the virus response and then died from it is just an anecdote for one side of the debate to hold up and wave at the other.

 

[smokingman]

Just to be clear I do not support any drug for the treatment of covid19. I do support scientific study of possible therapies. What I am going to post now is the oposite of that posted all over the web on both sides of the media.

https://www.foxnews.com/science/cov...-showed-no-benefit-more-deaths-va-virus-study

COVID-19 treatment hydroxychloroquine showed no benefit, more deaths in VA virus study

First
The Control group was treated with azithromycin.
Nearly dying patients with lymphopenia were treated with hydroxychloroquine.

I would not say it a scientific study but designed from the start to discredit those who support the use of the drug by giving it to only patients near death(without zinc as well).

Read if for yourself. At best it is comparing apples to lemons, and saying lemons are sourer.

Of course, if they had given the drug earlier or used two similar patient types you might have been able to call it a study, but this crap is not science.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1

It is also just a review of outcomes not an actual study.

Show me real science. Science where the control group and test group are similar type patients in similar conditions.

No one should base an opinion on crap hit pieces like this trying to pass as science.

I do not support or oppose the drug. I do expect science not this bs to help me form an opinion one way or the other.

 

[chipbennett]

Well, it doesn't mean nothing. It's sad that he died from it. There are no moral victories in this. But there's an irony there where it seems karma was unkind to him. I wouldn't disparage him at all for holding the view that he did prior to getting gravely ill. I'm thinking that before he got it, maybe it was impacting his life, and his mindset was geared to that. And then at the point where he had to go to the hospital, I'd put money on him having at least a little change in heart.

I think it was GFGT that first said in effect that your belief about our reaction to it will fall upon the lines of how it's impacting you. If it's hitting you financially, you're much more likely to be in the "it's the ****ing FLU! Let us get back to work!" If it's hitting your health, you're more likely to say, "shut'r down."

Correlation does not prove causation here, and coincidence, while ironic, is not karma.

Once antibody tests are widespread and we discover that 50 times as many people were infected with mild or no symptoms, will we say that karma was kind to such people who took the opposite stance of this man, by asserting how utterly devastating this particular virus is - merely because their stance was as inaccurate as his apparently was?

My problem with these kinds of stories (and the resultant gloating/condescension from one side of this "debate") is that they are used to conflate this person and his stance with others who have a) scientific basis for disagreeing with public policies being enacted, and/or b) a problem with the long-term implications/dangers of the obvious and egregious overreach by the state in response to the virus.

 

[Phase2]

I do not support or oppose the drug. I do expect science not this bs to help me form an opinion one way or the other.

You obviously are a science denier if you look at the details of what they actually did and can quickly find weaknesses in their methodology rather than simply parroting the headline.

 

[chipbennett]

Oh I believe this is written and posted and reposted and reposted precisely because of the growing push back to the shutdown orders. There is a divide there and the folks that believe we should remain locked down are (in my opinion) feel like we should remain so until hell freezes over, if need be. (In my small sphere of experience)They are the ones that are reposting this thing.

This story may or may not have been posted here already (see video here). What I find very interesting are the comments posted to the story, particularly the (obviously minority position) comments that the officers were "just following orders" and that all the mother had to do was to "comply with the law".

I think that this is primarily where many of us see the real, long-term problem.

 

[T.Lex]

You obviously are a science denier if you look at the details of what they actually did and can quickly find weaknesses in their methodology rather than simply parroting the headline.

Wow.

That seems to be a broad brush you're painting with.

 

[chipbennett]

Just to be clear I do not support any drug for the treatment of covid19. I do support scientific study of possible therapies. What I am going to post now is the oposite of that posted all over the web on both sides of the media.

https://www.foxnews.com/science/cov...-showed-no-benefit-more-deaths-va-virus-study

COVID-19 treatment hydroxychloroquine showed no benefit, more deaths in VA virus study

First
The Control group was treated with azithromycin.
Nearly dying patients with lymphopenia were treated with hydroxychloroquine.

I would not say it a scientific study but designed from the start to discredit those who support the use of the drug by giving it to only patients near death(without zinc as well).

Read if for yourself. At best it is comparing apples to lemons, and saying lemons are sourer.

Of course, if they had given the drug earlier or used two similar patient types you might have been able to call it a study, but this crap is not science.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1

It is also just a review of outcomes not an actual study.

Show me real science. Science where the control group and test group are similar type patients in similar conditions.

No one should base an opinion on crap hit pieces like this trying to pass as science.

I do not support or oppose the drug. I do expect science not this bs to help me form an opinion one way or the other.

I just roll my eyes at people who tout this sort of obvious, agenda-driven pseudo-science. It is an epidemiological survey of studies/data, not a clinical study/trial, which means that, regardless of what it found, the results are worth precisely nothing. (This type of "study" only really has value in making decisions about what clinical studies should be performed and how they should be set up.)

And that was without actually digging into what data/studies were being compared, as you have done here. It's even worse than I thought.

 

[chipbennett]

Wow.

That seems to be a broad brush you're painting with.

I think you missed the color of the paint he was using.

 

[gunsisgood]

Bill O'Reilly perfectly nailed it!! Anyone who doesn't understand what is truly going on with this virus needs to read this. This is the truth that the media doesn't report, understandably so. It would cause mass panic but it's still the undeniable truth.

READ & RE-READ/ BILL O'REILLY ON CHINA.

Written by Bill O'Reilly

China’s Bio weapon, and Pelosi.. My wife Angie will tell you that I study history and world events fluently every day. I have studied China for many years. To get answers I need to questions, I call many I know in Washington on Capitol Hill (from my tenure on two Presidential campaigns and Presidential talks) and I ask them for straight up answers to better understand what affects us as a nation.

Well, in 2016 America elected a new Sheriff: Donald J Trump. For decades the Chinese walked all over America but the new President said “not anymore”. Trump literally strangled China’s economy to the point their economy was in its worst free fall ever. Trump negotiated a new 50 billion trade agreement. He had Xi by the proverbial balls. America’s economy was on fire and unstoppable. President Xi Jingping knew he could not beat the USA militarily and he knew any domesticated economic attack would fail as our economy was too strong. He had to act. But how?

Enter the USA democrats led by Pelosi and Schiff. Impeachment. A hoax. A distraction for our people and President. Xi Jingping and his thugs see this. They aren’t stupid. They have very intelligent intellectual thinkers in their government. Now you must understand , the Chinese regime are truly Barbarians. Notice I did not say ALL CHINESE. The Chinese people are a good people. I enjoy my interactions with them.

The communist regime has millions of its own citizens slaving in gulags simply for speaking against the government or openly practicing Christianity. Knowing they could not attack us openly they needed to be coy, like a deceptive fox. In my opinion, I believe the regime released a biological weapon upon the world that doesn’t kill everyone, but kills “enough,” especially the elderly and in-firmed. Back in WW 2 Hitler thought the same way. He got rid of what he considered the useless and rejects of society.

Trumps task force uses models to figure things. Xi used and uses “models” too. China's president figured that if he killed a few of his own (a few hundred thousand to them would be a few out of 1.4 billion people) and spread the virus to other nations (especially to the USA) they would “level the economic playing field” and not have fired a shot.

Losses of his own people were acceptable costs of a new war. When China’s own doctors attempted to sound the warning, they were immediately silenced. In fact one died and another has simply disappeared. Trump and the other allied leaders indeed KNOW this is what happened. They have under reported their own deaths. Trump knows he cannot outrightly seek retribution. His news conference today showed me this when he balked publicly about no outright retribution over Xi’s handling of this and he immediately brought up the “trade deal”. However, Trump wasn’t being weak, he too was now being coy. We know this was a biological weapon. The food market story is bull****.

Xi knows we know it. Trump also today announced he sent two battle groups of destroyers and other ships to sea several days ago to fight drugs and rogue actors like Iran should they try anything.

I say he did this to show Xi he knows what has transpired (we have the greatest intelligence assets) and that they (the Chinese) should rethink further action. Politics is premier. We cannot overtly attack China for what they have done as we would also suffer greatly. We all know this.

But China has temporarily achieved its goal. America was literally consumed by Trumps phony impeachment brought by the ultra left democrats (supported by democrat rank and file and one Republican Mitt Romney) and Xi Jingping saw an opening. He took it. Xi did what Trump usually does...he walked onto the world stage and threw a grenade into the “room” and left. It exploded in the form of this worldwide pandemic. It brought the USA and the rest of the world to its knees and leveled the economic playing field.

Our economy is now near depression. Xi didn’t fire one bullet. Trump needed to up his game of chess and putting our Naval ships to sea was his next move. He said he is a “war” President. He is.

But now on not one but two fronts. One front is the virus and the other front is the Chinese. While the Saudi’s and Russians are screwing with oil prices they aren’t overtly doing what this pandemic is doing. The drug smuggling story for dispatching the Naval Force is bull**** and the world knows it. I am of the opinion Trump can indeed bring us back from this catastrophe albeit with a changed playing field.

But Trump is a genius in chess and financial matters. He’s become a champ at international politics too. I am sure Trump can once again lead the economy to even stronger strength and greatness the it was . He can do it quickly I’m sure of it. He has proved it. Xi Jingping needs to be sent a message loud and clear. NEVER AGAIN. We need to bring all of our critical manufacturing back from China beginning with our medicines they were recently threatening to withhold. We can do it immediately. Again, another reason for Trump putting to sea such a sizable Naval Force. Sending a clear message.

We all must ride out the next few weeks. Then we and the world pick up the pieces and move on. The democrats who have given Xi this opening wrapped in a bow must pay a heavy price in November as they (the democrats) truly have cost and continue to cost America precious lives by the phony scandals. Nancy Pelosi continues to help the Chinese by her daily shameless attacks upon the President and meddling in stimulus packages as she did this last weekend. Yesterday’s statements she made were truly appalling and the lowest of low. I didn’t think she could go any lower. What a disgrace she is to our nation.

But, Pelosi aside, make no mistake, China must and will be taught a lesson the likes they have never seen before and Trump is the man to pull the trigger.

We the people must teach the democrats the same lesson at the polls. They (the radical wing of the party) are the enemy of a free America. I am certain of it. The entire democrat party of our forefathers is dead. Remember people, Trump indeed tried to warn us all of the Conavirus in his State of the Union Speech. He spoke of it. He said he was on top of it.

After he spoke , Nancy Pelosi ripped up the speech calling Trumps words “a manifesto of lies”. She disgraced the country and all of our fellow honored citizens present in the House Chamber. Well she now has American blood on her hands. She is very majorly responsible for these needless deaths as well as the Chinese. Her and Adam Schiff.

The left and democrats laughed as she tore up his speech. Well, as they laughed the disease he just spoke of in that speech came to our shores. Republicans and Democrats alike are now dying. Your family members and mine. Our grandparents and middle aged citizens alike. Bodies are being loaded in trucks with forklifts in Brooklyn outside of hospitals. No one is safe. Our liberty is for the most part suspended. As we bury our dead (without proper funerals) from this calamity let’s drive the nails into the coffin of the Democrat party as well in November.

It’s time people. Stand up for your rights and your country! Our Liberty and survival is at stake! I am praying for God’s blessing on our nation. But, God also gave us the ability to think for ourselves and it’s time we placed blame for all this death where it belongs: on the doorsteps of Nancy Pelosi, Adam Schiff and Xi Jingping directly. Wake Up America. WAKE UP!

Written by: Bill O'Reilly

 

[T.Lex]

I think you missed the color of the paint he was using.

Dammit.

What color is coffee this morning.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Just refreshing this for the morning crew that don't go back and read things from the night before

DD was there, promptly, to set me straight

This'll be a fun one to post here.

Coronavirus Kills More Americans in One Month Than the Flu Kills in One Year

THAT'S BULL****!!!!!!!

 

[T.Lex]

I think that graph presents the data in a very odd way, which causes me to dismiss it. It doesn't provide the annual totals. And, for some reason 2017-2018 was picked, but the "Weeks" axis starts at week 1?

It may not be cherry-picking data, but if they had to work that hard to present certain things, my skepticism increases.

 

[chipbennett]

Just refreshing this for the morning crew that don't go back and read things from the night before

DD was there, promptly, to set me straight

A couple thoughts:

1) Why are the 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 flu seasons not included? (i.e. why was the 2017-2018 flu season chosen?)

2) What did this chart look like before and after the changes in CDC directive regarding counting of COVID19 deaths?

 

[smokingman]

I just roll my eyes at people who tout this sort of obvious, agenda-driven pseudo-science. It is an epidemiological survey of studies/data, not a clinical study/trial, which means that, regardless of what it found, the results are worth precisely nothing. (This type of "study" only really has value in making decisions about what clinical studies should be performed and how they should be set up.)

And that was without actually digging into what data/studies were being compared, as you have done here. It's even worse than I thought.

I feel like the monkey in the middle at the moment. I have done the same to "studies" supporting the use of it as well. Why? Because I want to see actual science. No cheer leading or a drive buy shooting but science.

hydroxychloroquine can screw you up for life. That is a fact. It does however work well if you have malaria. Does it work for covid19? Show me the science. Not an er doctor who gave it to 6 patients that recovered in 7-10 days. Not some bs crap about it killing patients who where already near death. I have seen some clinical trials ended due to bad neurological outcomes(Switzerland,Brazil,and in the USA). I have also seen some that showed with zinc it may actually be effective if given early. It needs further study. When we have good science I will have a better opinion either way, but not before.

 

[chipbennett]

I think that graph presents the data in a very odd way, which causes me to dismiss it. It doesn't provide the annual totals. And, for some reason 2017-2018 was picked, but the "Weeks" axis starts at week 1?

It may not be cherry-picking data, but if they had to work that hard to present certain things, my skepticism increases.

The headline is also demonstrably untrue. The highest weekly total for COVID deaths per million is under 40. The minimum weekly total for flu deaths per million is 10. Last I checked 52x10 > 40.

 

[smokingman]

A couple thoughts:

1) Why are the 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 flu seasons not included? (i.e. why was the 2017-2018 flu season chosen?)

2) What did this chart look like before and after the changes in CDC directive regarding counting of COVID19 deaths?

2019 data will be available in around 3 months, this is normal. 2020 data will not be available until the summer of 2021.

I am not going to argue about covid19 deaths. It is both over counted and under counted....honestly depending on the mood and what message is being pushed at the time(less to do with political parties at some points,at others that is the driving factor).

I did save 2018 and 2019 death rates from the cdc with charts and causes. It is useless at the moment because 2020 death rates will not be out until close to 2022. When that happens I will see how far off the average we actually where and get a good idea of the death rate change. I suspect honestly deaths are vastly under counted compared to our average to push a message or to keep the population calm. It will be some time before I know if that is correct though.