Coronavirus

[smokingman]

Excellent summary, smokingman. I just finished listening myself. In addition to what you posted, my biggest takeaways are:

China has gone on a war-footing against coronavirus.

The government, the medical community and the public need to take a "we can beat this" attitude.

Learn, coordinate, implement. Rinse and repeat.

Thank you.I found more information in his presentation than in all WHO briefings to date.He tried to present facts,not politics.He even mentions criticism from fellow members of the WHO for this.My main take away was you need to find cases to stop the spread.I hope some will see this,and take measures to correct the known issues we are now facing.

I fear our current strategy(government) is setting our country up to fail on a level that is unacceptable.

Again thank you Phase2 for the recognition. I may think I am prepared.I may accept more of what is happening than some.But honestly I know it will still be a shock and adjustment when it hits.

If you are a current medical worker,and they follow the guidance and set up specific Covid-19 hospitals here(as they did in China,and Italy...Italy has 13 hospitals already set up like this)....one note of caution to mention for specifically you.

Most medical worker cases where
A. Early
B.At hospitals not set up for covid-19 In his example on hospital set up for delivering babies had infections spread widely because they where not prepared.

 

[smokingman]

CDC changed a ton today.They updated the website greatly. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/summary.html

[FONT=&amp]More cases are likely to be identified in the coming days, including more cases in the United States. It’s also likely that person-to-person spread will continue to occur, including in the United States. Widespread transmission of COVID-19 in the United States would translate into large numbers of people needing medical care at the same time. Schools, childcare centers, workplaces, and other places for mass gatherings may experience more absenteeism. Public health and healthcare systems may become overloaded, with elevated rates of hospitalizations and deaths. Other critical infrastructure, such as law enforcement, emergency medical services, and transportation industry may also be affected. Health care providers and hospitals may be overwhelmed. At this time, there is no vaccine to protect against COVID-19 and no medications approved to treat it. [/FONT]Nonpharmaceutical interventions[FONT=&amp] would be the most important response strategy.

They are failing though still in a huge way.

Because of this statement.
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]If you are a healthcare provider, be on the look-out for people who recently traveled from China and have fever and respiratory symptoms.
It is still part of the guidelines for testing as well.[/FONT]

 

[Phase2]

As important as Wuhan is to understanding what is going on, they were the first and still are the epicenter of this epidemic. They had many casualties just learning that (a) there was a new disease here and (b) absorbing lessons on how to address it. Therefore, their casualty rate is likely distorted to what it will become long-term as we better understand how to prevent and treat it.

The presenter was impressed at China's organization on addressing coronavirus. China has been dealing with this mostly locally for 2.5 months now and as a national priority for about 7 weeks. I know his report is eagerly awaited by a lot of people. I hope they take it seriously. The US cannot get away from this scot-free and addressing this will be hard/expensive. But continue to learn, coordinate and execute control measures and we can minimize it's effect.

When addressing something like this that can grow exponentially, fast reaction makes a big difference. An ounce of preparation is better than a pound of cure. I hope others are absorbing these lessons as well.

 

[smokingman]

The way I understand it, Venice carnival is cancelled, but in two of the links above the map shows Venice as not locked down. All three articles you linked specifically state that approximately 50000 people are on total lockdown.
Maybe I'm missing something, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to get the truth.
I greatly appreciate the time you've spent researching and contributions in this thread.

The answer is actually kind of at this point.No public events Other measures put in place.Link https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/25/towns-italy-lockdown-coronavirus-12298246/

Are Milan and Venice on lockdown because of coronavirus? Precautions are being taken in Lombardy’s capital, Milan

Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/25/towns-italy-lockdown-coronavirus-12298246/?ito=cbshare
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/

 

[Phase2]

The development of vaccines is still critical. We don't develop the same long-term resistance to viruses that we do to bacterial infections. What is currently known as flu and cold season may become known as flu, cold and coronavirus season.

 

[tbhausen]

You don’t say? What’s missing here is a description of “significant disruption”:

[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]Coronavirus disruption to ‘everyday’ life in US ‘may be severe,’ CDC official says[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-disruption-in-us-might-be-severe-cdc-official-says[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

[video=youtube_share;IL7oGRKETZM]https://youtu.be/IL7oGRKETZM[/video]

Great daily summery from a UK doctor.

 

[tbhausen]

That video is sobering. My fear is that we here in the USA cannot and will not do what they are doing in Beijing. I don’t believe we have the infrastructure, nor do I believe people will play nice if government tried to do it.

 

[ditcherman]

The answer is actually kind of at this point.No public events Other measures put in place.Link https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/25/towns-italy-lockdown-coronavirus-12298246/

Are Milan and Venice on lockdown because of coronavirus? Precautions are being taken in Lombardy’s capital, Milan

Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/25/towns-italy-lockdown-coronavirus-12298246/?ito=cbshare
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/

Thanks, and great synopsis above^.

 

[actaeon277]

That video is sobering. My fear is that we here in the USA cannot and will not do what they are doing in Beijing. I don’t believe we have the infrastructure, nor do I believe people will play nice if government tried to do it.

Well, here we keep a couple days worth of food in the store.
And if you keep more than a couple days of food at home, people laugh at the crazy prepper.
Which discourages people from stocking up.
So..

 

[jamil]

Senate to Receive Classified Coronavirus Briefing Tuesday as Trump Admin to Ask for Emergency Funding
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...-as-trump-admin-to-ask-for-emergency-funding/

Why classified... it's just the Flu

Obviously congress is overreacting. The Flu kills WAY more people.

 

[jedi]

Well, here we keep a couple days worth of food in the store.
And if you keep more than a couple days of food at home, people laugh at the crazy prepper.
Which discourages people from stocking up.
So..

Its not just this.
It's the social culture at large.
The population of chinese is subjected. If .Gov says you will do xyz, you WILL do it. They dont have civil rights or that same spirit of freedom.

It is impressive how the chinese .gov on a large scale can build hospitals and manage their people like cattle almost and even kill them in the name of eradicating this virus.

None of that would fly in the usa.
Riots, violence up start.
Heck we are going to have that once the chicken nuggets came be delivered at mcd and the food stores got no food.

Imagine the us military trying to impose city wide quarantine.
It may happen but it will be costly and deadly as citizens take matters into their own hands.

Doing it would also end the spirit of america as well.

 

[Ark]

As a reddit user it's been extremely interesting to see the sudden wave of censorship of all "unapproved" discussion of the coronavirus. Quarantining of subs, bans, and comment deletions on a scale that is CLEARLY the result of a keyword-based system because it's happening even in subreddits that aren't directly about news or the virus. Keywords like china, coronavirus, cdc, who, etc seem to be bringing automated attention and deletion with no clear rhyme or reason. This is almost certainly the result of China jerking the leash that they bought with $150m+ in investment last year. Yesterday, Reddit pushed out a policy update declaring that they will now be banning people for upvoting topics in quarantined subs...which the alternative coronavirus subs are, of course. So if you engage in unapproved discussion of this topic even in the opt-in only subreddits dedicated to it, you will be banned.

https://preview.redd.it/6uhhiveuhsh41.jpg?width=432&auto=webp&591a370a - Example of the rate at which discussions are being removed from the main coronavirus sub. If you visit r/coronavirus, you can see a clear preference for the type of "sources" being allowed: Namely, only

CDC's comments today basically telling people to prepare for mass disruption to schools and employers is totally absent from the news subs. It's just meaningless business as usual, small coronavirus case count updates, nothing on the massive dropoff of container ship traffic or manufacturing and its upcoming effects on the world.

The silence is deafening. You don't bully one of the largest websites in the world into this kind of massive scale automated censorship over SARS 2.

 

[smokingman]

As a reddit user it's been extremely interesting to see the sudden wave of censorship of all "unapproved" discussion of the coronavirus. Quarantining of subs, bans, and comment deletions on a scale that is CLEARLY the result of a keyword-based system because it's happening even in subreddits that aren't directly about news or the virus. Keywords like china, coronavirus, cdc, who, etc seem to be bringing automated attention and deletion with no clear rhyme or reason. This is almost certainly the result of China jerking the leash that they bought with $150m+ in investment last year. Yesterday, Reddit pushed out a policy update declaring that they will now be banning people for upvoting topics in quarantined subs...which the alternative coronavirus subs are, of course. So if you engage in unapproved discussion of this topic even in the opt-in only subreddits dedicated to it, you will be banned.

https://preview.redd.it/6uhhiveuhsh41.jpg?width=432&auto=webp&591a370a - Example of the rate at which discussions are being removed from the main coronavirus sub. If you visit r/coronavirus, you can see a clear preference for the type of "sources" being allowed: Namely, only

CDC's comments today basically telling people to prepare for mass disruption to schools and employers is totally absent from the news subs. It's just meaningless business as usual, small coronavirus case count updates, nothing on the massive dropoff of container ship traffic or manufacturing and its upcoming effects on the world.

The silence is deafening. You don't bully one of the largest websites in the world into this kind of massive scale automated censorship over SARS 2.

I have seen information disappear first hand.Even videos on youtube,as I was watching them.It is happening to be sure.

 

[tbhausen]

Well, here we keep a couple days worth of food in the store.
And if you keep more than a couple days of food at home, people laugh at the crazy prepper.
Which discourages people from stocking up.
So..

True… But I was thinking about the crowd control, temporary walls, passes to move around, funneling through checkpoints, etc. in Beijing... I’m not sure people here would do that… “freedom” and all...

 

[tbhausen]

Its not just this.
It's the social culture at large.
The population of chinese is subjected. If .Gov says you will do xyz, you WILL do it. They dont have civil rights or that same spirit of freedom.

It is impressive how the chinese .gov on a large scale can build hospitals and manage their people like cattle almost and even kill them in the name of eradicating this virus.

None of that would fly in the usa.
Riots, violence up start.
Heck we are going to have that once the chicken nuggets came be delivered at mcd and the food stores got no food.

Imagine the us military trying to impose city wide quarantine.
It may happen but it will be costly and deadly as citizens take matters into their own hands.

Doing it would also end the spirit of america as well.

You said exactly what I was trying to say, much more directly.

 

[Ark]

It's very difficult because this is the exact kind of story that most attracts online buffoonery, conspiracy nutbags, rampant speculation, deliberate misinformation, etc. It's 100% true that all of those things exist and are active.

But it is also true that our emperors have no clothes. We know we are being lied to. We know we are being censored. We know organizations like the WHO are compromised by Chinese influence. The lying may be well-intentioned, and is undoubtedly rooted in the fundamental belief that elites have in their own right to keep others in the dark "for their own good", but the lesson they fail to learn time and again is that when the elites leave gaps in the narrative, crazy people move in to fill the vacuum.

They (yes, the mysterious general "they"!) in government, media, and public health are working very hard to maintain the assumption that these kind of things happen "there" but cannot happen "here". I am far from a subject matter expert, but one thing I do remember from brushing up against the public health people at SPEA is that there is a serious and predictable cost to telling people to lockdown, evacuate, prep, etc. It means lost incomes, it means lost production, it even means statistically predictable injuries and deaths from everyone driving to the stores at once or trying to evacuate a given place at once. Thus there is a major institutional bias against telling people to take action, any action, because they are effectively assuming responsibility for a predictable degree of mayhem and death, which will blow back on them if the justification for it turns out to be no big deal.

Credibility is like friendship: Slow and hard won, can be lost in a second, even harder to regain once lost. It's deeply concerning to see our institutions playing fast and loose with their credibility, and then trying to silence anyone who speaks out about it. I suspect, ultimately, CCP ****ery is the explanation. Chernobyl all over again, experts being forced to sacrifice their credibility on the alter of pleasing the regime. It just screws everyone over in the end, because the real information gets lost in the criticism, arguing, and conspiracy theorizing by uninformed randos on the internet. We just. Don't. Learn.

 

[Trigger Time]

Not aware of this thread till today.
Going on a trip/cruise to Italy April 17-27.

This am I saw where the virus jumped from 5 cases to 200 over the weekend in Italy.
A dozen schools closed, thousands on lockdown in some places, a certain Cathedral closed to tourists.

This could be interesting.

Markets finally starting to reflect it, with commentators surprised it hadn't happened earlier since we are in an artificially high market anyway.

Hope you bought the travel insurance so you get your money back.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Hope you bought the travel insurance so you get your money back.

Or he may be able to postpone. A friend of mine at church is in the Florida Keys right now. His original vacation was several years ago in the middle of the hurricane down there. He was able to reschedule the trip without much cost difference.

 

[Vigilant]

It's very difficult because this is the exact kind of story that most attracts online buffoonery, conspiracy nutbags, rampant speculation, deliberate misinformation, etc. It's 100% true that all of those things exist and are active.

But it is also true that our emperors have no clothes. We know we are being lied to. We know we are being censored. We know organizations like the WHO are compromised by Chinese influence. The lying may be well-intentioned, and is undoubtedly rooted in the fundamental belief that elites have in their own right to keep others in the dark "for their own good", but the lesson they fail to learn time and again is that when the elites leave gaps in the narrative, crazy people move in to fill the vacuum.

They (yes, the mysterious general "they"!) in government, media, and public health are working very hard to maintain the assumption that these kind of things happen "there" but cannot happen "here". I am far from a subject matter expert, but one thing I do remember from brushing up against the public health people at SPEA is that there is a serious and predictable cost to telling people to lockdown, evacuate, prep, etc. It means lost incomes, it means lost production, it even means statistically predictable injuries and deaths from everyone driving to the stores at once or trying to evacuate a given place at once. Thus there is a major institutional bias against telling people to take action, any action, because they are effectively assuming responsibility for a predictable degree of mayhem and death, which will blow back on them if the justification for it turns out to be no big deal.

Credibility is like friendship: Slow and hard won, can be lost in a second, even harder to regain once lost. It's deeply concerning to see our institutions playing fast and loose with their credibility, and then trying to silence anyone who speaks out about it. I suspect, ultimately, CCP ****ery is the explanation. Chernobyl all over again, experts being forced to sacrifice their credibility on the alter of pleasing the regime. It just screws everyone over in the end, because the real information gets lost in the criticism, arguing, and conspiracy theorizing by uninformed randos on the internet. We just. Don't. Learn.

So, from your first paragraph, which one are you?