Coronavirus

[Thor]

[h=1]China Postpones Annual Parliament As Coronavirus Spreads in Beijing[/h]https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/beijing-coronavirus-02242020140210.html

Excerpts:

But Chinese President Xi Jinping has called for people to return to work as soon as possible.

"The epidemic is getting worse," Wang said. "Beijing could even become a second Wuhan,"

"This disease is highly infectious, with such a high mortality rate in China," he said. "But I think more than 95 percent [of infections] were caused by the government, because the measures they took have consistently led to the virus spreading further and faster."

The National Health Commission is currently rolling out a traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) treatment plan for COVID-19 patients, but without any obvious impact on the outcomes for those infected.


"A large number of patients who have mild disease are being put straight onto antibiotics and proprietary TCM medicines, as well as regular antivirals, but these medicines aren't effective at all,"

Anyone who doesn't comply is judged to be violating government policy and the spirit of epidemic prevention directives.



Commentator Lin Bin said the drive to use TCM to treat coronavirus patients comes all the way from the top, from Chinese Communist Party General Secretary Xi.

"They even cause gastrointestinal side-effects and damage liver and kidney function," He said. "I have been worried all along that that this drug treatment regime will actually mak the milder cases into more serious cases, or worsen the more serious cases."

"The big guy is saying they need to ... promote the development of TCM, local officials don't have the medical expertise, and local health commissions are too afraid to speak out against it," Lin said.

"Nobody would dare, or [the police] will come knocking on their door for 'tea'," he said.

End quoting: So, let's see now, Xi is the new Mao and Mao killed over 60M Chinese...Xi's plan seems to be country agnostic though.

 

[smokingman]

I don't want to for my own enslavement. I look for the buy American option first; after that most anybody but the ChiComs.

https://americansworking.com/

 

[smokingman]

Everything I'm seeing now says the lockdown in Italy affects about 50000 people, but your regions listed seem to match. Wondering what the discrepancy is? Just trying to get to the truth, because sometimes the panic can be worse than the disease.

I have seen many news reports.The BBC has been a decent source as they have reporters on the ground outside of Venice,they where talking and interviewing the guards(military at one police at a smaller road) and doing interviews by cell phone.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51602007

I know Venice is in lock down entirely.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51602007

Here is what I understand at this point. Each area is locked down,but not totally.
12 cities are totally locked down.No one in or out.Some of them are listed on the map in the above article.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51628084 more updated news in this one.

So if you live in a rural non infected city,you may be able to say go from Lombardy(district)to Lazio. But must avoid certain cities all together.I know the 50,000 number is way off.

In one of those BBC articles I saw an interview with the mayor,who was sick but had not been tested( reporter talked to him via video chat) asked him if he felt ok,he looked bad.He said he probably was,but they where already out of test kits.In another report they mentioned being out of kits and having 8000+ suspected cases but did not have enough kits to test them.That was just in one of the cities.
Venice alone,just the city is 262,000. It is for certain 100% locked down.No one in or out unless they want 3 months in jail.

[video=youtube_share;lP9mHpAiQX0]https://youtu.be/lP9mHpAiQX0[/video]

This video is a little dated,back when they first hit 100 cases.

 

[Phase2]

As much as I'd like manufacturing jobs to come to America, I'd be perfectly happy if a percentage of them went to Mexico. Growing the number of better paid Mexicans would reduce the pressure to come to the US illegally and help to provide more stability on our southern border.

And yes, I'm quite aware that corruption/organized crime is another factor in their current problems.

 

[Thor]

And yes, I'm quite aware that corruption/organized crime is another factor in their current problems.

Not to mention having to figure siesta into your production schedule. Why did the production line stop? Siesta time.

 

[Phase2]

Trump furious Americans infected with coronavirus flew back to US without his permission: report

Yup. Apparently, only those cleared after their quarantine period were supposed to come back. Instead, they put known infected on the same plane (but separated). This decision was made by someone in the State Dept over the original instructions. I'm just cynical enough to wonder if this was a #resist decision.

Trump was right. Who the f*** made that call? They managed to nearly quadruple the number of (known) infected people in the US with that one decision.

The CDC reportedly opposed the State Department's decision to allow 14 individuals who were confirmed to be infected to travel on the evac flight after their cases were confirmed just before takeoff, thanks to one of the many botched, drop-the-ball moments attributed to Japanese health officials.

This is exactly what they warned about: In addition to the 14 people who were already infected, it appears another 25 were infected on the flight back - where the sick individuals were separated by the rest using duct tape and a thin tarp-like sheet.

That brings total US cases to 53.

 

[cbhausen]

Oops...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51628484

 

[smokingman]

Press conference with WHO this morning.This one from the team who had been in Wuhan physically.It is long.I missed it live.
When I am done listening(2+ hour briefing) I will try to give a summary.

[video=youtube_share;v3TowZyuIxI]https://youtu.be/v3TowZyuIxI[/video]

 

[ditcherman]

I have seen many news reports.The BBC has been a decent source as they have reporters on the ground outside of Venice,they where talking and interviewing the guards(military at one police at a smaller road) and doing interviews by cell phone.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51602007

I know Venice is in lock down entirely.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51602007

Here is what I understand at this point. Each area is locked down,but not totally.
12 cities are totally locked down.No one in or out.Some of them are listed on the map in the above article.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51628084 more updated news in this one.

So if you live in a rural non infected city,you may be able to say go from Lombardy(district)to Lazio. But must avoid certain cities all together.I know the 50,000 number is way off.

In one of those BBC articles I saw an interview with the mayor,who was sick but had not been tested( reporter talked to him via video chat) asked him if he felt ok,he looked bad.He said he probably was,but they where already out of test kits.In another report they mentioned being out of kits and having 8000+ suspected cases but did not have enough kits to test them.That was just in one of the cities.
Venice alone,just the city is 262,000. It is for certain 100% locked down.No one in or out unless they want 3 months in jail.

[video=youtube_share;lP9mHpAiQX0]https://youtu.be/lP9mHpAiQX0[/video]

This video is a little dated,back when they first hit 100 cases.

The way I understand it, Venice carnival is cancelled, but in two of the links above the map shows Venice as not locked down. All three articles you linked specifically state that approximately 50000 people are on total lockdown.
Maybe I'm missing something, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to get the truth.
I greatly appreciate the time you've spent researching and contributions in this thread.

 

[smokingman]

China response. Everything they did hinged on testing cases,and finding cases.
Once found.

1.Differentiated approach.Depending on the number of cases in an area.

2.Mobilized all medical workers.Moved them to cases.All workers not just medical
made to feel it was a duty to stop the spread.Non essential work shut down.All non essential business shut down.
Example. 40k additional medical workers sent to Wuhan a city of 15 million.

3. Re-purposed all of government. All jobs changed. Everything became about virus control and getting things where they needed to go.
Example. Department of transportation no longer was in charge of regulating transportation,but providing it in effected quarantine areas.

4.AI and big data used. Cell phones and wechat used to do much of the contract tracing in real time.Where was the now infected person,who had they been in contact with and near.

5.Hospitals. More than 90% converted to nothing but covid-19 treatment.Most non covid-19 medical issues are diagnosed via telecare.

Social distancing. Disinfecting. Hygiene. Sanitation. all the highest priorities. Isolation.

Food distribution. Online ordering and community drops. Has not worked that well,and they are trying to improve it.

Shipping issues from areas.

Almost no cases of non pneumonia cases(those that are asymptomatic transmitters it is a small percent 1:12 minutes into briefing)
Common cases,not in critical care where walking pneumonia.This is around 80% of cases.Many case stay in the category for 2-4 weeks.
Severe cases around 20% need oxygen support,and have a more likely hood of needed mechanical support.Of the 20% in this category most need full time support either oxygen,and in a few days possibly mechanical support.It is a huge number.This is the group that needs the most help.Whole hospitals. Average time in hospital is 4-6 weeks currently.%15 of this group go into critical care.Death rate is around 60% with care. Without enough proper care this rate is much higher.


51 minutes into his briefing,there is a cut in audio.Reuters first and second source of audio conflicting.

At 49-51 minutes he is talking about the new antibody test they have developed in China.

Individual hospitals with 1000 or so patients are using 60+ ventilators and ecmo systems 4+

The doctor says no western hospitals have the scale they do for support. They are moving in even more ventilators and ecmo systems.
They are doing very well at keeping more people alive.This is very different from current practices in the west.We are not prepared.
Doctor says if he gets it he wants treated in China.The mortality rate would be much higher without support.
60 minutes in.

Questions have started from reports.

Rapid Isolation key.We have counted on vaccines,and need to change our mindset to one of isolation and prevention not counting on things like a vaccine to slow the spread.

Being clear of the virus via test is good for 3 days.All workers retested every 3 days to be eligible to work(multiple provinces,but in his example 5 million are already part of that system.)

2 meter distance for all communication when not wearing ppe. They used a room with microphones to talk to each other without PPE,with the translators and everyone sitting one person per table.

If you have a runny nose,it is not covid-19. Less than 4% had any upper respiratory issues. 88% had fever and lower lung issues.
The complications of keeping people alive for weeks is not something we are prepared for.It has kept the death rate lower in China.The Chinese current death rate is around 4%,but that number has been going up over time.

1. Thing to do to prepare(governments and medical systems).Stop thinking it will not appear.Think it will be here tomorrow.

2.You will need beds.You will need to Isolate patients and contacts.

3.You have to have enough ventilators. You have to have to oxygenation ability.

4.You have to have testing ability. You have to have CT scanning capacity.You have to be ready to rapidly respond.

5.Can people ID suspected cases and contact trace rapidly?

6.Talk to the population.Prepare the population.Mask,and PPE will be needing in outbreak areas.As well as supplies and transportation of cases to care.

7.Find out and understand who in government can do what and when,before they have to do it.

8.You will have anxiety and fatigue of many medical workers,and officials. Plan a rotation system to try and give breaks.With hospitalizations lasting weeks not days people will need breaks.Patients of course need psychological support during care.This disease is something no one has ever had to deal with.Helplessness will be a common feeling. It is a battle we should prepare for.

9.Find cases as fast as you can. Having sever cases trip the system by already be critically ill is not going to work.

10.Everyone needs to be ready.No one is.Not psychologically or physically currently(oh but a few are...we are not many,but we exist.My comment not his in brackets).

One scientist on the trip thinks children where spreading this asymptotically. He does not. New antibody test for all children returning to school? They do not know enough yet.

Lower capacity countries will have much higher spread and fatalities. 1:40 in.They simply do not have the ability to have thousands on ventilators.

Smokers did not have a higher instance of disease.But age seems to be a very large factor,older patients recover more poorly.

It does hit all ages. Newborns and infants have died from the disease,other children have survived.It largely depends on care for the younger cases.
He gives an example of a 2 month old where the mother died and the nurses kept the infant in care(tested positive),and they are still surviving.

Test test test. You have to find cases. 300,000 flu samples from one province (taken in January)where retested for covid-19. Only .49% had it,but if they had not found those cases it would have contributed to the spread.

Currently,during this briefing the team has not briefed the WHO. They will be responsible for the release of the report.The WHO is in control of information from the team after this press conference.

I took an open approach to this.

It is a source of raw information.Not something we have seen very often related to covid-19.

I looked for facts and advise he was giving.

I understand the political aspect,and that China failed in some huge ways.But that is not what is import here.I put politics aside,and looked at facts he presented.

To me this was information I,and no one else had seen or heard from someone who had limited exposure to the actual area the largest epidemic had happened in.

It is information that can be used. I did my best to track and glean any information out of the 2+hour briefing and share it here.

I will post this in total once on a new page so more have a chance to read it.

 

[Dead Duck]

So when will they talk about burning the infected houses? While they're still home? And still alive?

 

[ditcherman]

So when will they talk about burning the infected houses? While they're still home? And still alive?

Did you see post 759 (page 19)? Don't watch it. It is truly disturbing. Nevermind, I was never here. Don't go there.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Switzerland has reported its first case, and Barcelona as well.

More firsts today: Austria, Algeria, Croatia

 

[jedi]

Not to mention having to figure siesta into your production schedule. Why did the production line stop? Siesta time.

that is not mexican culture. That is SPANISH culture. As in european culture.

 

[tbhausen]

Oops...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51628484

There’s some good information linked from that BBC site.

 

[jedi]

Did you see post 759 (page 19)? Don't watch it. It is truly disturbing. Nevermind, I was never here. Don't go there.

The video is still up. It's fascinating may not be the word. It's basically just like a movie narration. In order to save the few remaining left the .govs of the world resorted to burning out the virus and anyone suspect of being a carrier.

 

[Thor]

that is not mexican culture. That is SPANISH culture. As in european culture.

Yet the production lines stop...for the same reason. Maybe because the Spanish conquered them and left their culture? Maybe it was Moorish culture?

 

[smokingman]

China response. Everything they did hinged on testing cases,and finding cases.
Once found.

1.Differentiated approach.Depending on the number of cases in an area.

2.Mobilized all medical workers.Moved them to cases.All workers not just medical
made to feel it was a duty to stop the spread.Non essential work shut down.All non essential business shut down.
Example. 40k additional medical workers sent to Wuhan a city of 15 million.

3. Re-purposed all of government. All jobs changed. Everything became about virus control and getting things where they needed to go.
Example. Department of transportation no longer was in charge of regulating transportation,but providing it in effected quarantine areas.

4.AI and big data used. Cell phones and wechat used to do much of the contract tracing in real time.Where was the now infected person,who had they been in contact with and near.

5.Hospitals. More than 90% converted to nothing but covid-19 treatment.Most non covid-19 medical issues are diagnosed via telecare.

Social distancing. Disinfecting. Hygiene. Sanitation. all the highest priorities. Isolation.

Food distribution. Online ordering and community drops. Has not worked that well,and they are trying to improve it.

Shipping issues from areas.

Almost no cases of non pneumonia cases(those that are asymptomatic transmitters it is a small percent 1:12 minutes into briefing)
Common cases,not in critical care where walking pneumonia.This is around 80% of cases.Many case stay in the category for 2-4 weeks.
Severe cases around 20% need oxygen support,and have a more likely hood of needed mechanical support.Of the 20% in this category most need full time support either oxygen,and in a few days possibly mechanical support.It is a huge number.This is the group that needs the most help.Whole hospitals. Average time in hospital is 4-6 weeks currently.%15 of this group go into critical care.Death rate is around 60% with care. Without enough proper care this rate is much higher.


51 minutes into his briefing,there is a cut in audio.Reuters first and second source of audio conflicting.

At 49-51 minutes he is talking about the new antibody test they have developed in China.

Individual hospitals with 1000 or so patients are using 60+ ventilators and ecmo systems 4+

The doctor says no western hospitals have the scale they do for support. They are moving in even more ventilators and ecmo systems.
They are doing very well at keeping more people alive.This is very different from current practices in the west.We are not prepared.
Doctor says if he gets it he wants treated in China.The mortality rate would be much higher without support.
60 minutes in.

Questions have started from reports.

Rapid Isolation key.We have counted on vaccines,and need to change our mindset to one of isolation and prevention not counting on things like a vaccine to slow the spread.

Being clear of the virus via test is good for 3 days.All workers retested every 3 days to be eligible to work(multiple provinces,but in his example 5 million are already part of that system.)

2 meter distance for all communication when not wearing ppe. They used a room with microphones to talk to each other without PPE,with the translators and everyone sitting one person per table.

If you have a runny nose,it is not covid-19. Less than 4% had any upper respiratory issues. 88% had fever and lower lung issues.
The complications of keeping people alive for weeks is not something we are prepared for.It has kept the death rate lower in China.The Chinese current death rate is around 4%,but that number has been going up over time.

1. Thing to do to prepare(governments and medical systems).Stop thinking it will not appear.Think it will be here tomorrow.

2.You will need beds.You will need to Isolate patients and contacts.

3.You have to have enough ventilators. You have to have to oxygenation ability.

4.You have to have testing ability. You have to have CT scanning capacity.You have to be ready to rapidly respond.

5.Can people ID suspected cases and contact trace rapidly?

6.Talk to the population.Prepare the population.Mask,and PPE will be needing in outbreak areas.As well as supplies and transportation of cases to care.

7.Find out and understand who in government can do what and when,before they have to do it.

8.You will have anxiety and fatigue of many medical workers,and officials. Plan a rotation system to try and give breaks.With hospitalizations lasting weeks not days people will need breaks.Patients of course need psychological support during care.This disease is something no one has ever had to deal with.Helplessness will be a common feeling. It is a battle we should prepare for.

9.Find cases as fast as you can. Having sever cases trip the system by already be critically ill is not going to work.

10.Everyone needs to be ready.No one is.Not psychologically or physically currently(oh but a few are...we are not many,but we exist.My comment not his in brackets).

One scientist on the trip thinks children where spreading this asymptotically. He does not. New antibody test for all children returning to school? They do not know enough yet.

Lower capacity countries will have much higher spread and fatalities. 1:40 in.They simply do not have the ability to have thousands on ventilators.

Smokers did not have a higher instance of disease.But age seems to be a very large factor,older patients recover more poorly.

It does hit all ages. Newborns and infants have died from the disease,other children have survived.It largely depends on care for the younger cases.
He gives an example of a 2 month old where the mother died and the nurses kept the infant in care(tested positive),and they are still surviving.

Test test test. You have to find cases. 300,000 flu samples from one province (taken in January)where retested for covid-19. Only .49% had it,but if they had not found those cases it would have contributed to the spread.

Currently,during this briefing the team has not briefed the WHO. They will be responsible for the release of the report.The WHO is in control of information from the team after this press conference.

I took an open approach to this.

It is a source of raw information.Not something we have seen very often related to covid-19.

I looked for facts and advise he was giving.

I understand the political aspect,and that China failed in some huge ways.But that is not what is import here.I put politics aside,and looked at facts he presented.

To me this was information I,and no one else had seen or heard from someone who had limited exposure to the actual area the largest epidemic had happened in.

It is information that can be used. I did my best to track and glean any information out of the 2+hour briefing and share it here.

I will post this in total once on a new page so more have a chance to read it.

What I learned in total.

 

[Dead Duck]

Can anyone translate the audio on this? My Vietnamese friend got mad when I asked him to.

***Warning****
This is that burning the infected video. (maybe)

https://www.brighteon.com/0b027214-0c81-49fa-b326-f51876adfa94

 

[Phase2]

Excellent summary, smokingman. I just finished listening myself. In addition to what you posted, my biggest takeaways are:

China has gone on a war-footing against coronavirus.

The government, the medical community and the public need to take a "we can beat this" attitude.

Learn, coordinate, implement. Rinse and repeat.