Common OC/CC threadjack

[j706]

I'm pretty sure comfort plays a big role for many OCers. My wife wears pointy heels that she complains hurt her feet for no constructive reason other than appearances. Is it the suggestion of some in this thread that I force myself to wear unnecessary layers and sweat more than necessary, or endure chafing where the muzzle end of a holster rubs the skin inside my pants, simply for appearances, or for a nebulous idea of "the purpose", or fear of sheeple? I will be the first to admit that I CC 99% of the time, mainly due to retention concerns, and when carrying a BUG the holdout is always hidden, but I'll be damned if I'm going to wear a sweat soaked overshirt for no other reason to keep some people happy.

Well like I said I am attempting to understand the mindset with this open carry subject. I might be dense because I have yet to hear a valid reason IMO. As far as hot weather and comfort, when off duty I carry a Wilson Combat in a Milt Sparks IWB summer special. I have carried the combo for years and don't even notice it. I just do not notice it. A CCW permit holder needs to have some discipline and understand it involves a little sacrifice of comfort

 

[j706]

There are a number of court rulings that show you incorrect re: whether or not one would have basis for filing a lawsuit against a criminal with a badge who made an arrest, or even an detention, based purely on open carry. Such actions are clearly illegal. The fact that some thugs are incapable of enforcing the law as it is instead of how they wish it were is why those court cases exist. You have identified yourself as a police officer, Here's hoping you don't abuse your badge in the manner you seem to advocate. What department, btw?

I do not recall writing anything about an arrest based on open carry only. Open carry combined with certain actions and or statements COULD be grounds for a criminal charge. You can sue anyone for anything. But the wrong suit can turn around and bite you in the *** real hard.

I get the impression you might be anti police by your statements like "criminals with a badge"ect. Whats up with that ***

 

[Joe Williams]

I do not recall writing anything about an arrest based on open carry only. Open carry combined with certain actions and or statements COULD be grounds for a criminal charge. You can sue anyone for anything. But the wrong suit can turn around and bite you in the ass real hard.

I get the impression you might be anti police by your statements like "criminals with a badge"ect. Whats up with that ****?

I work for Danville PD full time and Lizton PD part time.

I'm hardly anti-police. I am, however, VERY against cops who think they do not have to obey the law, or who think they can make the law what they want it to be. Such people are common criminals, with extraordinary power, and their attitude is a threat to our freedom and Constitution. That's what's up to with that. Surely, you don't have a problem with me not liking dishonest cops, right?

 

[j706]

I'm hardly anti-police. I am, however, VERY against cops who think they do not have to obey the law, or who think they can make the law what they want it to be. Such people are common criminals, with extraordinary power, and their attitude is a threat to our freedom and Constitution. That's what's up to with that. Surely, you don't have a problem with me not liking dishonest cops, right?

Nope...met many?

 

[Joe Williams]

Nope...met many?

Yes. Burned 'em down, too. Best thing I ever did with my badge.

 

[j706]

What does that mean?

 

[ATM]

Well like I said I am attempting to understand the mindset with this open carry subject. I might be dense because I have yet to hear a valid reason IMO.

Another thread for you and anyone else who is trying to understand:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/carry_issues_and_self_defense/11237-why_i_open_carry.html

 

[Beau]

People who OC are obviously just attention seekers. Not only that they don't realize the danger they put themselves and the general public in.

 

[rhino]

Still with the quoting! You guys are defeating my IGNORE list with the quoting!

 

[chasekerion4]

A CCW permit holder needs to have some discipline and understand it involves a little sacrifice of comfort

What about those of us in Indiana who have an LTCH?

No matter how you carry, you're sacrificing comfort.

I always get such a kick out of these threads. I don't care if you OC 7 guns at once.

Just carry.

 

[j706]

I wish more people would carry also, I just feel it should be done discreetly. i really think that if we ended up with tons of folks walking around with a gun on for all to see,there would be a push for some restrictions on carrying. We don't live in Dodge City and this ain't 1885. Not much good can come from open carry, even though legal. I can think of a lot of things that are legal. But just because they are that doesn't mean I want to do them. As for the record, in a way I think we should be like some states where a CCW is not even required,but I think out of sight out of mind is much more reasonable.

 

[Coach]

I wish more people would carry also, I just feel it should be done discreetly. i really think that if we ended up with tons of folks walking around with a gun on for all to see,there would be a push for some restrictions on carrying. We don't live in Dodge City and this ain't 1885. Not much good can come from open carry, even though legal. I can think of a lot of things that are legal. But just because they are that doesn't mean I want to do them. As for the record, in a way I think we should be like some states where a CCW is not even required,but I think out of sight out of mind is much more reasonable.

I think that responsible, law abiding folks carrying their guns around in plain sight will do more for the greater good than concealed. They more the public sees people carrying and doing it responsibly the more they will realize that guns are not the problem.

If it is legal and acceptable why must it be concealed?

 

[jsgolfman]

I wish more people would carry also, I just feel it should be done discreetly. i really think that if we ended up with tons of folks walking around with a gun on for all to see,there would be a push for some restrictions on carrying. We don't live in Dodge City and this ain't 1885. Not much good can come from open carry, even though legal. I can think of a lot of things that are legal. But just because they are that doesn't mean I want to do them. As for the record, in a way I think we should be like some states where a CCW is not even required,but I think out of sight out of mind is much more reasonable.

Ok, take that train of thought and instead of guns substitute another favorite right of yours and see how it sounds.

 

[JosephR]

Well I like to ride my motorcycle. Are you saying I should carry it on my hip instead of concealed? I don't get what we are substituting for what...

I don't think he's given up anything or even suggested anyone give anything up.

Why are all OC'ers so touchy?

 

[j706]

I think that responsible, law abiding folks carrying their guns around in plain sight will do more for the greater good than concealed. They more the public sees people carrying and doing it responsibly the more they will realize that guns are not the problem.

If it is legal and acceptable why must it be concealed?

I think for the most part people do not want and will not tolerate much of that. People like to be comfortable and that makes them uncomfortable. They do not know you, they don't know your background. All they know is there is a guy over there with a gun on his hip. And you need to admit, there are people in this state with CCW's that to be blunt, really should not have one. I have dealt with them. While they are thankfully rare they are still out there.

I know that words alone will not change anyone's mind on this subject. But I certainly hope those of you that chose to carry openly will stop and think about what it looks like. It is strange,very strange.

And those of you that disagree with anyone opposed to open carry and say we are suddenly anti gun is plain wrong. There are not enough pro second amendment people out there as it is. We sure don't need people getting silly with radical anti gun accusations over the subject. That is just how the anti gunners would want you to be.

By reading pro open carry posts some of the posters say their selves they are nervous about it. The reason IMO is it is not natural. Common sense people...common sense. It is not complicated.

 

[jsgolfman]

Well I like to ride my motorcycle. Are you saying I should carry it on my hip instead of concealed? I don't get what we are substituting for what...

I don't think he's given up anything or even suggested anyone give anything up.

Why are all OC'ers so touchy?

I don't think you quite understand the question. Instead of guns, substitute speech. Follow that thought process through:

"I wish more people would speak also, I just feel it should be done by sign language. i really think that if we ended up with tons of folks walking around speaking for all to hear,there would be a push for some restrictions on speaking. We don't live in Dodge City and this ain't 1885. Not much good can come from speaking, even though legal. I can think of a lot of things that are legal. But just because they are that doesn't mean I want to do them. As for the record, in a way I think we should be like some states where a license to perform sign language is not even required,but I think out of hearing out of mind is much more reasonable."

 

[JosephR]

OK, that's exactly what I thought you/they were getting at. I found it stupid so I assumed you weren't stupid and dismissed it.

Yes, you have the freedom of speech but does that mean you should be loud and belligerent and rude to others with your freedom? Or, maybe you should exercise your freedom as much as you need to and that can be done without bothering or distracting other people.

It's not about losing or giving up a freedom. It's about keeping that freedom but toning it down a bit.

Too many people think they are going to teach/lecture/instruct others about gun laws. Most people don't give a sh!t what you think, really. It's unfortunate but that is how it is. Do you want to hear about someone's view on pro life/pro choice when you see their bumper sticker? No? Well noone wants you explaining gun laws to them.

 

[jsgolfman]

Once again, you don't agree with Joe you're stupid. I hate to ignore people as I generally like discussion but you may make me adjust that philosophy. You asked before for someone to provide facts about OC deterring criminals and I provided those facts. You conveniently ignore them, just as you ignore my scenario above and insert your own. When I OC, I am not being loud or belligerent to others. On the contrary, I am polite and respectful in all of my interactions. Heaven forbid I distract someone,lol.
If I don't want to hear someones' views on abortion, I simply don't ask. Likewise, if I OC. If you don't want to hear my opinion, don't ask. I'm not forcing you to hear them, matter of fact, I prefer that you don't ask and simply leave me to my own devices. My argument is valid and still stands. You've got the freedom of speech on this forum, it hasn't stopped you from being loud and belligerent. Perhaps you should take your own advice.

 

[JosephR]

Wow you just don't follow along very well, do you? My analogy was to show you that even though you have a right, you may still have more than one way to express that right- a quiet simple way or a more "in your face way".

I didn't ignore your scenario, I pointed out how it wasn't a direct correlation and I improved on it.

Do you get it now?

Your "facts" about OC deterring criminals wasn't about OC at all. It was about a fear of guns in general. If you were to look into it farther, criminals are more deterred by the "halo effect"- a belief that if guns are allowed, many people have them and you can't tell who. Even people who don't carry are protected by this effect as if they did. There's more deterrence in not knowing who is carrying than by looking and seeing who is.

I guarantee you that if you met a criminal with an IQ above room temperature he'd do what I'd do and shoot an OC first and keep an eye out for the CC during the shootout.


And no, it's not "Joe is right and everyone else is stupid" but more like "once again, Joe said a little too much for one person to understand all at once..."

 

[j706]

What a load of horse dung. You are thinking well above the capacity of a common felon. They have one focus and one only and that is the cash!! Watch the surveillance videos from most holdups and they don’t even care about customers they go straight to the register. They feel that if they wave a gun around that everyone else will get out of their way. If I am standing with my gun side away from you when you come in then how in the He!! are you going to know if I am carrying?

Never Ever Ever under estimate your potential enemy! It just might get you smoked!! A very dangerous and potential deadly mind set. I cannot help but thinking that is one of the flaws with the open carry mindset. I think people who think because I have this weapon and everyone can see it,no one will mess with me. I can say from experience, crack heads,meth heads, mental cases and hardened criminals can could less about you having that weapon. They do not think like a normal person. Trust me on that. Matter of fact, with some I think it might even attract them to you.