Common OC/CC threadjack

[JosephR]

Oh wait, I have irrefutable proof right here...

Let's say I want to walk into an establishment and "earn" some money or cause some damage. I WILL be scanning the place for people like you and you won't be hard to spot. YOU WILL go down ASAP before anyone else. That's a FACT.

Once the OC'ers are down and out of the way, I'll worry for a second about anyone CC'ing at which point I'll realize they'd have joined in on the melee and shot me while YOU were taking fire from ME and THEY were NOT.

I'm at a tactical advantage since I'm prepared to shoot and you're not since you have your booger hook planted up your nose thinking noone will harm you cuz you're a badass Rambo flashing your 1911 for the world to see.

How's that for proof?

And if the tables were turned? How would you be able to even walk into a place unsure about people like me? This is called the HALO EFFECT. Read about it.

 

[jsgolfman]

You are both going to get this thread closed if you continue with the name calling. But, either way, read this:
NRA-ILA :: The Armed Criminal In America

 

[JosephR]

Thanks but that offers zero help on the matter.

 

[VUPDblue]

Ok, ok. I'll re-open this one.
Rule #1---> No name calling.
Rule #2---> See Rule #1


The arguing is getting nowhere here. If you have an example of or proof of your side of the arguement then post it. Keeping this up by asking the other guy for the same will result in the closure of this thread (permanently).

 

[jsgolfman]

Thanks but that offers zero help on the matter.

"
[SIZE=-1]Fifty-six percent of the felons surveyed agreed that "A criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun;" 74% agreed that "One reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]A 57% majority agreed that "Most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police." In asking felons what they personally thought about while committing crimes, 34% indicated that they thought about getting "shot at by police" or "shot by victim."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The data suggest that criminals may be a little more concerned about being caught by police and imprisoned than about being shot, but meeting the armed citizen clearly elicited fears of being shot. That deterrent effect of citizen gun ownership appeared in their responses to questions about actual encounters. Although 37% of those surveyed admitted that they personally had "run into a victim who was armed with a gun," that figure surpassed the 50% mark for armed criminals, an experience shared by 57% of the active gun predators. And 34% of the sample admitted to having been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Significantly, almost 40% said there was at least one time when the criminal "decided not to do a crime because [he] knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun." Clearly, armed citizens represent a real threat to criminals, a threat with which large numbers are personally familiar, or familiar with through the shared experiences of their fellow outlaws."[/SIZE]

 

[redneckmedic]

"
[SIZE=-1]Fifty-six percent of the felons surveyed agreed that "A criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun;" 74% agreed that "One reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]A 57% majority agreed that "Most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police." In asking felons what they personally thought about while committing crimes, 34% indicated that they thought about getting "shot at by police" or "shot by victim."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The data suggest that criminals may be a little more concerned about being caught by police and imprisoned than about being shot, but meeting the armed citizen clearly elicited fears of being shot. That deterrent effect of citizen gun ownership appeared in their responses to questions about actual encounters. Although 37% of those surveyed admitted that they personally had "run into a victim who was armed with a gun," that figure surpassed the 50% mark for armed criminals, an experience shared by 57% of the active gun predators. And 34% of the sample admitted to having been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Significantly, almost 40% said there was at least one time when the criminal "decided not to do a crime because [he] knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun." Clearly, armed citizens represent a real threat to criminals, a threat with which large numbers are personally familiar, or familiar with through the shared experiences of their fellow outlaws."[/SIZE]

This should be a CC OC Sticky, best data found yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[redneckmedic]

tag

 

[JosephR]

Ok gotcha. I saw the chart and read about homes and thought that is what they were talking about.

Yes, true. I would be afraid of an armed man. BUT if I decide I have to go into a store and start shouting, an armed man will NOT cause me to tuck tail and run. He'll cause me to start shooting earlier than later.

I would hope to not run into an armed man. If I ran into one I saw was armed, I'd shoot him first.

If I see an armed man walk into a store, I would wait until he left. If I walked into a store and screamed "this is a hold up" and found him standing there, he'd be shot.

It seems all that an OC'er has to worry about is a criminal who thinks a little bit like I do.

 

[redneckmedic]

My guess, key word is guess is that most armed criminals have no intent in using their firearm for more than intimidation, and prob can't use it worth a sh!t anyhow. Not to take one side over the other, I do both!

 

[JosephR]

tag

LOL you don't have to tag if you respond!

40% said there was at least one time when the criminal "decided not to do a crime because [he] knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun." Clearly, armed citizens represent a real threat to criminals, a threat with which large numbers are personally familiar, or familiar with through the shared experiences of their fellow outlaws

So 2 out of 5 said that one time out of countless robberies, they stopped when they felt someone may be armed. Other times they still felt someone was armed and didn't stop or what? Never felt that way before and went ahead with it? Unclear.

Also, this leads us to the Halo Effect. The 40% did not say they SAW a gun but BELIEVED someone to be armed. It is US OC'ers that create this, NOT OC'ers. The fact that some can CC means that ANYONE can be CC'ing. MY CC'ing protects even those NOT carrying because this 40% of criminals can be spooked for no reason...

This is all in support of CARRYING and not one type or the other.

 

[Joe Williams]

Ok gotcha. I saw the chart and read about homes and thought that is what they were talking about.

Yes, true. I would be afraid of an armed man. BUT if I decide I have to go into a store and start shouting, an armed man will NOT cause me to tuck tail and run. He'll cause me to start shooting earlier than later.

I would hope to not run into an armed man. If I ran into one I saw was armed, I'd shoot him first.

If I see an armed man walk into a store, I would wait until he left. If I walked into a store and screamed "this is a hold up" and found him standing there, he'd be shot.

It seems all that an OC'er has to worry about is a criminal who thinks a little bit like I do.

Yes, that could happen. Of course, one could also be struck by a meteorite.

One of the two above has actually happened to someone.

 

[redneckmedic]

LOL you don't have to tag if you respond!

NO but it helps my keyword search

 

[JosephR]

Joe Williams- what can't happen in that scenario? A criminal think like me? Yeah probably not. I'm thinking most common criminals don't have my IQ but anyway...

What if someone like you or me were out of their job and was at the end of their rope? It's not too far fetched to believe that someone like me could walk into a store you are shopping at with a gun, ready to rob and doesn't care if he dies.

The funny thing is, CC CAN NOT hurt me in any situation. You DO believe that OC could possibly help me in SOME situations but I know that CC will NEVER hurt me.

Are you capable of looking at it that way?

 

[redneckmedic]

 

[JosephR]

Yeah but my bishop is bigger.

Seriously, at least I'm not pretending things I've come to believe are scientific facts. I'm fine letting someone carry how they wish. In fact, I hope there's an OC'er around if I'm every involved in a robbery. Like in my scenario I gave, I'll be carefully taking aim at the bad guy when he and OC'er are in a crazy lead slinging fudgefest.

 

[redneckmedic]

Just to throw a punch..... are LEO idiots for wearing uniforms and becoming targets? not to mention OC'ing?

 

[JosephR]

Nope, I don't believe wearing their issued uniform makes them an idiot. BUT, how many detectives do you see who chose to keep their jacket over their gun and badge versus those who have to walk around with no jacket? I almost never see this, even in summer.

It would be stupid to call an officer stupid for wearing his uniform because it makes him a target. That would be like saying a baseball player is probably gay because he wears a uniform that is tight on his ass and legs.

 

[emsdial911]

I OC a XD Sub no one ever notices. If I am standing in line I usually have my gun arm down over the holster for 2 reasons. 1. so I can detour anyone from grabbing it or feel if anyone tries and 2. so not to draw attention to it. If someone comes in the only thing that they are looking for is security not scanning everyone to see if they have a weapon strapped to their side. They would have to scan everyone. To lose the element of surprise they would first have to see that you are carrying which means they take their eyes off their focus which would be the cashier or security. You would have to have your gun side facing them for them to even notice. I don’t think that criminals even think about anyone having a weapon (maybe except the employee) to even look for someone that OC’s. If someone does see they may have second thoughts about hitting the place they may think you are a LEO.

 

[j706]

Damn guys calm down!! Look...common sense dictates that one does not walk around with his weapon exposed. It is perfectly legal to walk around with your loaded long gun slung across you shoulder. Surely to goodness you will not say that you would walk into Walmart like that ...would you? Just because you can!! Sure different, but yet the same really.


As a LEO I do not walk around in civilian clothes with my badge and weapon exposed. CCW 1 o 1-never let anyone see your gun.

To the nay sayer on an intimidation charge, make no mistake about it,you get in a tiff with someone and you have a weapon exposed, you are flirting with legal disaster. You have no merit to a lawsuit for a person calling in on you. You have no merit to a lawsuit for being detained and or questioned after a person makes a legitimate call about you having an exposed weapon.

People running around doing the open carry silliness will do more harm to the CCW laws in this state that just about anything.

You will find very few people as passionate as me for all things firearms-DO NOT CALL ME ANTI GUN!!

Be smart,don't be an idiot, if you carry a weapon,wear a long tailed shirt and cover the damn thing up. Really...we shouldn't even be having this conversation. Common sense guys...common sense. Jeeeezzzz.

 

[emsdial911]

Oh wait, I have irrefutable proof right here...

Let's say I want to walk into an establishment and "earn" some money or cause some damage. I WILL be scanning the place for people like you and you won't be hard to spot. YOU WILL go down ASAP before anyone else. That's a FACT.

Once the OC'ers are down and out of the way, I'll worry for a second about anyone CC'ing at which point I'll realize they'd have joined in on the melee and shot me while YOU were taking fire from ME and THEY were NOT.

I'm at a tactical advantage since I'm prepared to shoot and you're not since you have your booger hook planted up your nose thinking noone will harm you cuz you're a badass Rambo flashing your 1911 for the world to see.

How's that for proof?

And if the tables were turned? How would you be able to even walk into a place unsure about people like me? This is called the HALO EFFECT. Read about it.

What a load of horse dung. You are thinking well above the capacity of a common felon. They have one focus and one only and that is the cash!! Watch the surveillance videos from most holdups and they don’t even care about customers they go straight to the register. They feel that if they wave a gun around that everyone else will get out of their way. If I am standing with my gun side away from you when you come in then how in the He!! are you going to know if I am carrying?