Colts 2023 A Time To Change

[Hatin Since 87]

A: flabby QB's is the only thing we can objectively say is obsolete

Terry Bradshaw disagrees

 

[Hatin Since 87]

(You’d be surprised how long i have kept that photo waiting for an opportunity to use it)

 

[ChristianPatriot]

View attachment 326913
Terry Bradshaw disagrees

I wish we could still give rep. That’s a quality post right there.

 

[jamil]

Indeed. But if Mahomes wouldve been in the league in ‘04 during the brady/manning era, do we think he would have the same stats they put up? I have my doubts. He would be in the same conversation as Michael Vick. A few good solid years, talented, athletic, and smart QB, but the Patriots were the most dominant team in NFL history, and the Colts had the #1 offense for majority of peytons career here. Then, after he went to the broncos, they had the #1 offense in the league and he smashed the touchdown record, at what age?!

Rushing QB’s are lucky to play to 30, let alone be breaking records at almost 40 years old.

I have a ton of respect for Mahomes and think he is by far the beat QB in the league right now. But, he is already beginning to feel the consequences of rushing so often and if KC wants him to have a 10+ year career theyre gonna have to get him to understand when to throw the ball away, study the defense, and get em on the next drive.

This made me think of another point. One point I've already made is that primarily running QBs (as opposed to drop back passers who can run) won't last as long even if they don't get hurt, because there's a shorter timer on their physical greatness than on their cerebral greatness. Also, if they don't have the cerebral aspect to compensate when their athleticism starts to fail, they're basically gonna have the same career span as RB's.

So the point is, to create a dynasty, teams won't be able to keep a steady supply line to replace their moble QB every 4 or 5 years (a friendly estimate). Can't get them through the draft, because they pick late if they're at the top of the league. Get them through free agency and you've got used goods with a shorter life. Maybe you can trade your has-been to some sucker...there's not always a Denver to take him off your hands. Not that it couldn't be done. It's just gonna be rarer to build a dynasty without that stability at QB.

SF did it back in the 80s with two outstanding QB's. Both mobile, but also both primarily drop back passers, who had fairly long careers.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Averages take into equation pocket passers and runners. So, if a pocket qb lasts 6 and a running qb lasts 2, averages to 4. I dont care what the average career length of the 2 in the sane stat is, whats the avg running qb career vs pocket qb?

I think this is where the disconnect is.

No one is saying that the abilities of a pocket passer are obsolete.

But the days of a quarterback ONLY having abilities as a pocket passer with zero athleticism are long gone. Like Jamil said, they aren’t building those dudes anymore.

So how do we move forward in a world where most all quarterbacks can run?

The answer isn’t never run. That’s a massive advantage to an offense. Run smartly.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

This made me think of another point. One point I've already made is that primarily running QBs (as opposed to drop back passers who can run) won't last as long even if they don't get hurt, because there's a shorter timer on their physical greatness than on their cerebral greatness.

A slow Lamar Jackson is still lightyears above the Mannings of the world as far as avoiding pressures. If he can continue his ascension as a pocket passer then why can’t he have a good long career?

Developing as a pocket passer is essential regardless of whether you’re a mobile quarterback or not. If you can’t develop that, then you’ve got no shot.

 

[jamil]

I think this is where the disconnect is.

No one is saying that the abilities of a pocket passer are obsolete.

But the days of a quarterback ONLY having abilities as a pocket passer with zero athleticism are long gone. Like Jamil said, they aren’t building those dudes anymore.

So how do we move forward in a world where most all quarterbacks can run?

The answer isn’t never run. That’s a massive advantage to an offense. Run smartly.

I still want to reiterate the absurdly rare Brady. He's in a different category than Manning, I think. Manning was high profile, high prospect, high draft. Brady was low everything. No one expected him to turn into the GOAT. Whereas Manning had all the expectations.

A flabby Tom Brady showing up at the combine would likely be impossible today. I don't think he could make it through 4 years of college eligibility at a division 1 university, without the team fitness trainers introducing him to an off season of hell in the gym.

 

[jamil]

A slow Lamar Jackson is still lightyears above the Mannings of the world as far as avoiding pressures. If he can continue his ascension as a pocket passer then why can’t he have a good long career?

Developing as a pocket passer is essential regardless of whether you’re a mobile quarterback or not. If you can’t develop that, then you’ve got no shot.

The more Jackson embraces the pocket, the longer his career will be, if he has the tools to pull it off. It looks to me like he does. He'll likely be the MVP this year. He didn't earn that all with his legs. I think Manning would have done even better than he did if he could feel the fingers on his throwing arm the last few years of his career.

But anyway, let's see some deep playoff runs, superbowl rings, records broken, before we start talking about lightyears.

 

[thunderchicken]

I only remember @thunderchicken saying he was a “diamond in the rough”. I suspect he has a dependency issue but cannot find any info.

I would still stand by that statement. I have no idea about the man's issues. But if he can get those addresses, I think he has the potential to be an incredible QB in the NFL.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

I think this is where the disconnect is.

No one is saying that the abilities of a pocket passer are obsolete.

But the days of a quarterback ONLY having abilities as a pocket passer with zero athleticism are long gone. Like Jamil said, they aren’t building those dudes anymore.

So how do we move forward in a world where most all quarterbacks can run?

The answer isn’t never run. That’s a massive advantage to an offense. Run smartly.

I dont disagree with that statement. I guess where the disagreement is, is when discussing to what extent a QB needs to run when in trouble to be lumped from group 1 (pocket qb) to group 2 (mobile qb). Manning moved his feet constantly, and scrambled quite often. The colts had one of the worst offensive lines, yet the highest ranked offense. That doesnt happen without moving away from pressure in the pocket. But I think youre more referring to the mahomes style of qb. Someone who will take off in an open field and gain 15 yards. Brady did that when it was clearly open and low risk. 1100 rushing yards isnt anything amazing, but it shows he was willing to take an easy yard when given.

Either way, i am in the same boat as Jamil when it comes to QB’s that rush often. Do they add another weapon on offense? Of course they do. The problem is, on average, they have short careers. I cant run with the same speed and mobility now as i did at 25, and im only 36. If they dont learn to play in the pocket, read coverages, and learn how to direct your offense based on the defense, when they hit 30 its basically end of the road.

Tom Brady just retired at the end of last season. Teams were still willing to invest all they could in bringing him to their team, while he is in his 40s. If you have a pocket passer that can put 400 yards up and 3 td’s a game, it doesnt matter if theyre mobile or not. Winning football games is what matters to franchises, and if a QB can do that, they dont care HOW they get it done.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

On a non-related note. Bill Belichick has visited the falcons for a second time. That could be an interesting landing spot for him.

And I would like it, because i hate the falcons almost as much as the patriots

 

[jamil]

With Brady gone I have no reason to like the pats anymore.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

On a non-related note. Bill Belichick has visited the falcons for a second time. That could be an interesting landing spot for him.

And I would like it, because i hate the falcons almost as much as the patriots

Really curious to see how he does outside of NE….

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Really curious to see how he does outside of NE….

I think hes a hell of a coach, but im not sure hes gonna fit well with atlanta.

I am surprised he didnt retire, honestly. After this many years of the constant preparation and travel I wouldnt wanna start over again with a new franchise.

Then again, maybe he feels he has something to prove.

 

[JCSR]

I think hes a hell of a coach, but im not sure hes gonna fit well with atlanta.

I am surprised he didnt retire, honestly. After this many years of the constant preparation and travel I wouldnt wanna start over again with a new franchise.

Then again, maybe he feels he has something to prove.

He has proven to be an average coach without a great QB.

Bill Belichick	Wins	Losses	Winning %	Super Bowl titles (as HC)
With Tom Brady	249	75	.769	6
Without Tom Brady	84	103	.449	0

 

[Hatin Since 87]

He has proven to be an average coach without a great QB.

Bill Belichick	Wins	Losses	Winning %	Super Bowl titles (as HC)
With Tom Brady	249	75	.769	6
Without Tom Brady	84	103	.449	0

Those stats are still pretty good for losing a franchise QB.

 

[Bugzilla]

I dont disagree with that statement. I guess where the disagreement is, is when discussing to what extent a QB needs to run when in trouble to be lumped from group 1 (pocket qb) to group 2 (mobile qb). Manning moved his feet constantly, and scrambled quite often. The colts had one of the worst offensive lines, yet the highest ranked offense. That doesnt happen without moving away from pressure in the pocket. But I think youre more referring to the mahomes style of qb. Someone who will take off in an open field and gain 15 yards. Brady did that when it was clearly open and low risk. 1100 rushing yards isnt anything amazing, but it shows he was willing to take an easy yard when given.

Either way, i am in the same boat as Jamil when it comes to QB’s that rush often. Do they add another weapon on offense? Of course they do. The problem is, on average, they have short careers. I cant run with the same speed and mobility now as i did at 25, and im only 36. If they dont learn to play in the pocket, read coverages, and learn how to direct your offense based on the defense, when they hit 30 its basically end of the road.

Tom Brady just retired at the end of last season. Teams were still willing to invest all they could in bringing him to their team, while he is in his 40s. If you have a pocket passer that can put 400 yards up and 3 td’s a game, it doesnt matter if theyre mobile or not. Winning football games is what matters to franchises, and if a QB can do that, they dont care HOW they get it done.

AKA Bobby Douglas. He could put a hurt on you running (into you).

 

[ChristianPatriot]

I think hes a hell of a coach, but im not sure hes gonna fit well with atlanta.

I am surprised he didnt retire, honestly. After this many years of the constant preparation and travel I wouldnt wanna start over again with a new franchise.

Then again, maybe he feels he has something to prove.

He’s 14 games shy of Don Shula’s mark for all time wins for a head coach.

I think that’s what he’s going for.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

He’s 14 games shy of Don Shula’s mark for all time wins for a head coach.

I think that’s what he’s going for.

Part of me would like to see him stay in the AFC, but from the stories I keep reading he’s looking at mostly NFC teams.

Honestly. Anyone but the cowboys. **** the cowboys.

 

[jamil]

I think hes a hell of a coach, but im not sure hes gonna fit well with atlanta.

I am surprised he didnt retire, honestly. After this many years of the constant preparation and travel I wouldnt wanna start over again with a new franchise.

Then again, maybe he feels he has something to prove.

Dude’s 71. If he can put the hours in he needs to be successful, more power to him.