Colts 2023 A Time To Change

[Hatin Since 87]

I understand that that’s what you would take.

See below.

I answered your “people who run franchises disagree with you” post and gave examples showing how that isnt true.

 

[jamil]

Woah woah woah

Isn’t this “walking it back” or “covering your butt” or whatever I was accused of?

This has NOT been your tone since last year’s draft.

You’ve said Manning and Brady every chance you get. They are not mobile quarterbacks. Not even close.

Don’t back down now. Stick to your guns man. You want a statue in the pocket that falls down every time there’s a hint of pressure, because that equals longevity.

I want a QB that stands in the pocket until the pressure gets close, then allude, extend the play until he can find an open receiver, or run for the first down. And, one who can run the occasional RPO and choose based on what the defense is doing and not just choose to run every time.

I don't want QB that is essentially a RB who passes, but I also suspect that's not what you're advocating. If a passing RB is all you got, maybe you can make the playoffs. If a team runs RPO every down because they have a "mobile QB" I don't know if that's gonna last any longer than read option in the NFL.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

College career stats -

Will Levis rushing attempts per game: 8

Anthony Richardson rushing attempts per game: 6.7

 

[jamil]

I mean. This is football. It's not like we've got competing sides in a vaccine debate. Seems like we can navigate a discussion about mobile QB's vs pocket passers without devolving into personal stuff.

 

[GourdOnTheDoor]

Nice deflect.

Do you want a mobile quarterback or not?

I would totally be on board with a non-mobile qb, as long as he gets a helper that can push his wheelchair around. If his legs don't work maybe he has a super strong upper body and can just throw bombs downfield, either way the metal wheelchair will deter would be tacklers

 

[jamil]

College career stats -

Will Levis rushing attempts per game: 8

Anthony Richardson rushing attempts per game: 6.7

Is that what this spat is about? Who to draft, Levis vs AR? I mean it is what it is at this point. That seems kinda moot.

Let's just see what we get next season. And if AR can stay healthy next year. The rails are, he can't stay healthy. And he won't get hurt again. Fair discussion seems anywhere between.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

I answered your “people who run franchises disagree with you” post and gave examples showing how that isnt true.

See for yourself. These are the highest QB contracts.

This is where teams are spending their money. These are what types of quarterbacks is getting paid in today’s NFL.



Mobile quarterback after mobile quarterback after mobile quarterback. Some of those could even fall into the running quarterback stereotype. Not one single Brady or Manning clone in there to be found.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Only with an EXCEPTIONAL line. The offensive line cannot hold back todays rushing attack more than about three seconds…

Its always been that way.

Do you remember when they used to show how quickly PM threw the ball from the time of snap? The D lines arent any different than they have always been, Brady and Manning had exceptional lines they competed against in “their time” as well (lol we talk like it was decades ago, it was a couple years ago, a lot of the players have played against them).

Brady and Manning both had the ability to move around the pocket. Gruden used to have a show and on more than 1 occasion highlighted Mannings ability to read which side the blitz was coming from and roll to the opposite side to buy an extra second to allow the play to develop.

Brady has 1100 career rushing yards. They were more mobile than everyone is giving credit for. They didnt Mahomes it, but they were able to move around, combine that with their ability to read a defense and thats a lot more beneficial to a team than someone who scrambles every other play.

Theres cons to every pro. Guys like Mahomes are so quick to automatically scramble and run that many times a play that would have developed doesnt have the time to develop. Many times it gets them yards they would have lost, and many times it is the opposite. When the quarterback scrambles, everyone breaks their routes and blocks to adapt to it. It can either pay off big, or end up in a loss, pick, or worse, injury.

Many coaches actually coach staying in the pocket and NOT rushing (as oppose to CP stating all the franchises want a mobile QB, which isnt true).

Regardless of whether you like a rushing QB or a pocket passer more, neither is better than the other and it is all dependant on the offense they are on and the defense they are against. What works for one team may not for another, and ehat works against one defense may not against another.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Is that what this spat is about? Who to draft, Levis vs AR? I mean it is what it is at this point. That seems kinda moot.

Let's just see what we get next season. And if AR can stay healthy next year. The rails are, he can't stay healthy. And he won't get hurt again. Fair discussion seems anywhere between.

No this isn’t the point at all.

Just hilariously ironic.

Hating AR because he runs too much, but the guy he wanted has ran even more in his career.

 

[jamil]

I would totally be on board with a non-mobile qb, as long as he gets a helper that can push his wheelchair around. If his legs don't work maybe he has a super strong upper body and can just throw bombs downfield, either way the metal wheelchair will deter would be tacklers

I see it as QB's using the tools they have. Maybe they're not mobile, but maybe they can scan their reads really fast and have a super fast release to compensate. I think both Manning and Brady excelled at that.

In terms of mobility vs pocket, it's not that it has to be either or. Like I said, both of Brady and Manning would have been extraordinarily harder to beat if they had the ability to extend plays when things go south. Plus, if they were athletic, it would open up the playbook drastically. I think Mahomes could grow into that if he stays healthy. Who knows about AR. He's untested in the NFL.

And speaking of Mahomes, I like the guy. Great QB. He's got the physical and mental skills. But. Someone has to beat him soon to end Taylor Swift's NFL career. I figure her and Kelce won't last much beyond the Pro Bowl. She'll be out of the league by end of Spring anyway. But if KC loses this week, I'd thank the football gods.

 

[jamil]

See for yourself. These are the highest QB contracts.

This is where teams are spending their money. These are what types of quarterbacks is getting paid in today’s NFL.

View attachment 326902

Mobile quarterback after mobile quarterback after mobile quarterback. Some of those could even fall into the running quarterback stereotype. Not one single Brady or Manning clone in there to be found.

I mean. I think we all can agree to line through Russell Wilson. He has been.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

I mean. I think we all can agree to line through Russell Wilson. He has been.

No doubt

 

[jamil]

See for yourself. These are the highest QB contracts.

This is where teams are spending their money. These are what types of quarterbacks is getting paid in today’s NFL.

View attachment 326902

Mobile quarterback after mobile quarterback after mobile quarterback. Some of those could even fall into the running quarterback stereotype. Not one single Brady or Manning clone in there to be found.

All those QB's are athletic, and we could say, mostly mobile. They're all mostly drop back passers too. They mostly run when being chased. Some arguably can run. But there are no single Brady/Manning clones in there because those are exceptional QB's who could make up for their lack of mobility with other extraordinary skills. So I don't think it's a fair comparison to use this as a reason why Brady's and Manning's are obsolete. They're rare. What team wouldn't take a prime Brady or Manning now?

 

[ChristianPatriot]

What team wouldn't take a prime Brady or Manning now?

This is really the conversation that we’re having.

Would an NFL team today pick prime Brady or prime Mahomes?

 

[jamil]

This is really the conversation that we’re having.

Would an NFL team today pick prime Brady or prime Mahomes?

Let's see how many Rings Mahomes gets before we answer that one.

In head to head, Mahomes beat a geriatric Brady. Would he have in Brady's prime? I don't think so. I think Mahomes has a good cerebral game and an outstanding physical game. I don't think his cerebral game is better than prime Brady's or Manning.

Here's a thought. What if Arch Manning lives up to the hype? Both athletic and cerebral.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Let's see how many Rings Mahomes gets before we answer that one.

In head to head, Mahomes beat a geriatric Brady. Would he have in Brady's prime? I don't think so. I think Mahomes has a good cerebral game and an outstanding physical game. I don't think his cerebral game is better than prime Brady's or Manning.

Here's a thought. What if Arch Manning lives up to the hype? Both athletic and cerebral.

I’m just talking about the player not the career accomplishments.

Easily 90% of teams in the league would take prime Mahomes. Easily.

 

[Ingomike]

The D lines arent any different than they have always been,

They are. Heavier, faster, smarter. JJ Watt was a WOW! nemesis for a long time, he would be just one of many, including his brother, Donald, Hutchinson, Bosa, etc…

 

[Ingomike]

But there are no single Brady/Manning clones in there because those are exceptional QB's who could make up for their lack of mobility with other extraordinary skills.

I just don’t think the O-lines can hold long enough today for pocket passers skills to get the ball out. That is the reason for the point CP makes that teams want mobile now…

 

[jamil]

Another thing. It seems like you're saying that QB's like TB and PM are obsolete. It's not an issue of obsolescence. It's an issue of the availability of QB's who are both athletic and cerebral. They're more available now because athletic training has evolved a lot since the days of Fran Tarkington.

But TB/PM's style of play is not obsolete. The drop back pocket passer is not obsolete, it's expanded with the evolution of more athletic players. Arch Manning is ripped. He's a manning. It's not because he inherited ripped DNA. It's a mindset of fitness through the earliest ages.

Another point. All those guys on that list you printed will soon be too old to rely on their legs. It's why Russel Wilson is washed up at such an early age. I don't think he has the skills to compensate for his lost athleticism due to age.

All those guys on that list will lose much of their mobility in 5-7 years. If they don't have the cerebral game to compensate, they're done. All their football knowledge is wasted. Just like Russel Wilson. So then maybe if drop back pocket passers are indeed obsolete, mobile QB's will become as expendable as RB's. What a dull game that will be.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Another thing. It seems like you're saying that QB's like TB and PM are obsolete. It's not an issue of obsolescence. It's an issue of the availability of QB's who are both athletic and cerebral. They're more available now because athletic training has evolved a lot since the days of Fran Tarkington.

But TB/PM's style of play is not obsolete. The drop back pocket passer is not obsolete, it's expanded with the evolution of more athletic players. Arch Manning is ripped. He's a manning. It's not because he inherited ripped DNA. It's a mindset of fitness through the earliest ages.

Another point. All those guys on that list you printed will soon be too old to rely on their legs. It's why Russel Wilson is washed up at such an early age. I don't think he has the skills to compensate for his lost athleticism due to age.

All those guys on that list will lose much of their mobility in 5-7 years. If they don't have the cerebral game to compensate, they're done. All their football knowledge is wasted. Just like Russel Wilson. So then maybe if drop back pocket passers are indeed obsolete, mobile QB's will become as expendable as RB's. What a dull game that will be.

Which I why I’ve said all along that it’s yes/and not either/or