Colts 2023 A Time To Change

[Hatin Since 87]

Not one single Brady or Manning clone in there to be found.

So thats how you rationalize that thats what a franchise wants, because none of them are “manning or brady clones”?

Joe Burrow, the highest paid contract on your chart, had 31 rushing attempts in 2023. Tom Brady had 29 attempts his LAST season.

 

[jamil]

I just don’t think the O-lines can hold long enough today for pocket passers skills to get the ball out. That is the reason for the point CP makes that teams want mobile now…

A QB who can read the field and release the ball quickly, AND is athletic enough to evade rushers, has a more open playbook available within his skill set than a QB that is more run focused, or a pocket passer who can't evade rushers. And I think we need to differentiate that if we're talking about what is actually obsolete.

Those QB's on that list above are indeed more athletic than the typical lineup of QB's we're used to seeing. It's not Brady's or Manning's drop-back skills that are obselete. It's their physique, if anything, lol. D-lines are quicker. And QB's are more athletic than they used to be.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Let's see how many Rings Mahomes gets before we answer that one.

In head to head, Mahomes beat a geriatric Brady. Would he have in Brady's prime? I don't think so. I think Mahomes has a good cerebral game and an outstanding physical game. I don't think his cerebral game is better than prime Brady's or Manning.

Here's a thought. What if Arch Manning lives up to the hype? Both athletic and cerebral.

Brady beat Mahomes

 

[Hatin Since 87]

They are actually 3-3 against each other.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Easily 90% of teams in the league would take prime Mahomes. Easily.

And easily 90% of the teams in the league would take prime Brady or Manning. Easily.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Another thing. It seems like you're saying that QB's like TB and PM are obsolete. It's not an issue of obsolescence. It's an issue of the availability of QB's who are both athletic and cerebral. They're more available now because athletic training has evolved a lot since the days of Fran Tarkington.

But TB/PM's style of play is not obsolete. The drop back pocket passer is not obsolete, it's expanded with the evolution of more athletic players. Arch Manning is ripped. He's a manning. It's not because he inherited ripped DNA. It's a mindset of fitness through the earliest ages.

Another point. All those guys on that list you printed will soon be too old to rely on their legs. It's why Russel Wilson is washed up at such an early age. I don't think he has the skills to compensate for his lost athleticism due to age.

All those guys on that list will lose much of their mobility in 5-7 years. If they don't have the cerebral game to compensate, they're done. All their football knowledge is wasted. Just like Russel Wilson. So then maybe if drop back pocket passers are indeed obsolete, mobile QB's will become as expendable as RB's. What a dull game that will be.

THIS!

Back to my point. Longevity. Sure, having a QB that runs can be an added offensive tool. It also ends in injury or loss of mobility in a few years. Then what do you have? A $60,000,000 QB that cant beat the defense with his preparation or mind, and can no longer run the same he used to. Franchise QB? No. Good QB for a couple seasons? Of course.

 

[JCSR]

This is sooooo good. You guys have CP all worked up now.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Instead of childishly laughing at posts, provide a rebuttal? “How old are you”?





Its a conversation that isnt heated and civil. Why get so worked up because someone has a different view? From your own words… “If some people don’t have thick enough skin to have their opinions challenged then maybe the internet’s not for you.”

 

[ChristianPatriot]

So thats how you rationalize that thats what a franchise wants, because none of them are “manning or brady clones”?

Joe Burrow, the highest paid contract on your chart, had 31 rushing attempts in 2023. Tom Brady had 29 attempts his LAST season.

I’ll give you that. Burrow is maybe the exception on that list. Maybe. And he’s been knocked out of almost half of his NFL career with injuries. So much for longevity huh? Weird how that works. It’s almost like all NFL players deal with injuries regardless of playing style or position. Strange.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Why get so worked up because someone has a different view?

This is sooooo good. You guys have CP all worked up now.

This will never not be funny.

People I’ve never met or who have any inkling about me or my personality thinking I’m getting worked up over this stuff.

Clueless.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

I’ll give you that. Burrow is maybe the exception on that list. Maybe. And he’s been knocked out of almost half of his NFL career with injuries. So much for longevity huh? Weird how that works. It’s almost like all NFL players deal with injuries regardless of playing style or position. Strange.

Which type of QB on average has longer careers in the NFL?

Which position in the NFL has the longest career?

Hint: Less hits taken = longer career.



I want a mobile field goal kicker!!! Those pocket kickers are a thing of the past. If he cant run for 50+ every game franchises dont want them. I dont care if hes the highest scoring kicker in history, teams would rather have a mobile kicker because I like mobile kickers.

 

[jamil]

So thats how you rationalize that thats what a franchise wants, because none of them are “manning or brady clones”?

Joe Burrow, the highest paid contract on your chart, had 31 rushing attempts in 2023. Tom Brady had 29 attempts his LAST season.

Yeah, but most of those were Brady's infamous, almost unstoppable, QB sneak. TB also ran because he was chased out of the pocket. And sometimes had positive yards because of it.

But to CP's point, would the same Tom Brady be chosen today? He was almost not chosen when he was drafted, we recall. His physical ability was so bad, he was exceptionally slow. Rare slowness for a draftee. He caught a break with NE, and made his way to backup, and did well enough to keep earning the spot after Bledsoe was healthy again.

So he's not an obvious superstar, but he became a superstar anyway despite his exceptionally poor athleticism. Which is why we can't compare him to obslelencence.

Anyway, as evidenced by his 7 rings, all the other teams were wrong to pass him up. But CP is right that many teams today are looking for the shiny mobile QB's to fit into their RPO focused offenses. That doesn't mean they're right. The fad when RGIII was drafted was all about read-option, which required mobile QB's. And, how'd he do? He done. I think teams would miss out too if another Tom Brady clone came along.

BTW, I'm not intending to say RPO is merely a fad. It is a fad, but it'll become a standard like play action pass.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Which type of QB on average has longer careers in the NFL?

Which position in the NFL has the longest career?

Hint: Less hits taken = longer career.



I want a mobile field goal kicker!!! Those pocket kickers are a thing of the past. If he cant run for 50+ every game franchises dont want them. I dont care if hes the highest scoring kicker in history, teams would rather have a mobile kicker because I like mobile kickers.

The average career for an NFL quarterback is 4 years. Most quarterbacks aren’t “run first” either.

Longevity is the exception not the norm.

And the kicker analogy is silly. You know that as well as I do. That’s just trolling.

 

[jamil]

Following this conversation, I keep getting told it's about something different each time.

Is it about non-athletic QB's vs athletic ones (immobile vs mobile)?

Is it about pocket passers vs running QB's?

Is it about Mahomes vs Brady?

What the **** are we saying is obsolete? And what do you mean by obsolete?

 

[jamil]

The average career for an NFL quarterback is 4 years. Most quarterbacks aren’t “run first” either.

Longevity is the exception not the norm.

And the kicker analogy is silly. You know that as well as I do. That’s just trolling.

If we're talking about which type of QB is gonna win the most rings, it seems like it's a legit question. How many top mobile QB's can you run through your offense to win championships, and still call that a franchise QB? Are they plug and play? I think career length is a factor if we're gonna tag them with "franchise QB". I think that was a criterion when we started this conversation.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

The average career for an NFL quarterback is 4 years. Most quarterbacks aren’t “run first” either.

Longevity is the exception not the norm.

And the kicker analogy is silly. You know that as well as I do. That’s just trolling.

Averages take into equation pocket passers and runners. So, if a pocket qb lasts 6 and a running qb lasts 2, averages to 4. I dont care what the average career length of the 2 in the sane stat is, whats the avg running qb career vs pocket qb?

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Following this conversation, I keep getting told it's about something different each time.

Is it about non-athletic QB's vs athletic ones (immobile vs mobile)?

Is it about pocket passers vs running QB's?

Is it about Mahomes vs Brady?

What the **** are we saying is obsolete? And what do you mean by obsolete?

Yes

 

[jamil]

Brady beat Mahomes

Mahomes beat Brady on his way to his Superbowl win. I mean. It was a geriatric Brady that he beat.

 

[jamil]

Yes

Oh. ****. I can solve that one then.

Q: non-athletic QB's vs athletic ones (immobile vs mobile)?
A: athletic QB's with high football IQ are better than IQ alone or running ability alone.

Q: pocket passers vs running QB's?
A: Both is better than running QB alone. For a long career, run mostly when being chased. Chuck it otherwise.

Q: Is it about Mahomes vs Brady?
A: Unknown. We'll know on Mahomes's 8th ring. If Taylor Swift keeps dating his teammates, I hope he never gets it.

Q: What the **** are we saying is obsolete?
A: flabby QB's is the only thing we can objectively say is obsolete, because. It ain't DNA. Have you seen how jacked Arch Manning is as a freshman? Yeah. I said a Manning. Seriously.

Q: What do you mean by obsolete?
A: No longer a thing to be sought.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Mahomes beat Brady on his way to his Superbowl win. I mean. It was a geriatric Brady that he beat.

Indeed. But if Mahomes wouldve been in the league in ‘04 during the brady/manning era, do we think he would have the same stats they put up? I have my doubts. He would be in the same conversation as Michael Vick. A few good solid years, talented, athletic, and smart QB, but the Patriots were the most dominant team in NFL history, and the Colts had the #1 offense for majority of peytons career here. Then, after he went to the broncos, they had the #1 offense in the league and he smashed the touchdown record, at what age?!

Rushing QB’s are lucky to play to 30, let alone be breaking records at almost 40 years old.

I have a ton of respect for Mahomes and think he is by far the beat QB in the league right now. But, he is already beginning to feel the consequences of rushing so often and if KC wants him to have a 10+ year career theyre gonna have to get him to understand when to throw the ball away, study the defense, and get em on the next drive.