Cleveland 12 yr old with toy gun shot in park

[Darral27]

And if it had been a real gun and the kid had shot at the officer(s) you would be saying the officer shouldn't have hesitated. It must be nice to be able to study and evaluate a decision that has to be made in a split second out in the real world from the comfort of your couch.

If the gun had been real and if the kid had shot at the officer that would be up to the officer whether or not to return fire. I am saying if it was just me, I would not.

I have to wonder why you keep trying to take shots at me? You do not know me, you do not know my life, you do not know where I have been or what I have and have not done. Right from the beginning I said IMO and I would not shoot a person who is obviously a child.

Is evaluating and giving our opinion on a split second decision in the real world from the comfort of our couch not what we all do on here? Yourself included? In this thread and many others.

 

[Denny347]

Deputy Chief Ed Tomba said one officer fired twice after the boy pulled the fake weapon — which was lacking the orange safety indicator usually found on the muzzle — from his waistband but had not pointed it at police. The boy did not make any verbal threats, but grabbed the replica handgun after being told to raise his hands, Deputy Chief Tomba said.

A man who called 911 told dispatchers the boy was on a swing and pointing a pistol that was “probably fake” and scaring everyone.

“This is a 12-year-old boy. This is not a grown man.
“I’d think you would handle situations with children differently than you would with an adult. They don’t fully understand everything that is going on.”
I still hold the same view that I did last night. The police acted too quickly. I would ask the officers how many of these 12yo gangsta's are at the park playing on a swingset, which the 911 caller did state. As I said before, I don't know what the boy looked like on this day but I do know that the picture with the article looks like a young boy. It said in the article as I quoted that the boy had not yet pointed the "gun" at the police but was in the process of pulling it from his waistband. I would venture to guess the officers probably already had their guns drawn. IMO they acted too quickly.
Too the person that said they would shoot my child if he pointed a toy gun at his daughter in the park, What the hell is wrong with you? This is the problem with people today.

BBC News - Tamir Rice shooting: Cleveland police release recordings

Listen to the audio tapes. They are revealing.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

If the gun had been real and if the kid had shot at the officer that would be up to the officer whether or not to return fire. I am saying if it was just me, I would not.

I have to wonder why you keep trying to take shots at me? You do not know me, you do not know my life, you do not know where I have been or what I have and have not done. Right from the beginning I said IMO and I would not shoot a person who is obviously a child.

Is evaluating and giving our opinion on a split second decision in the real world from the comfort of our couch not what we all do on here? Yourself included? In this thread and many others.

You're right, I don't know you and you don't know me or what I have done. But you made generalized statements about police officers that were completely uncalled for while evaluating this incident from the comfort of your couch. I would have not even responded to your posts had you left out the b.s. about trigger-happy cops.

 

[Denny347]

If I thought they were an adult and they were being threatening then yes I would, that is why I carry. That is not the case we are talking about here.
To the other question I don't think should you go to jail is relevant. If it was as I stated above then no, if it was some kid on a swing at a park that I shot for pointing a toy gun at my kid then yes I should. If I did the shooting in the kid playing at the park scenario I don't think I could live with myself so jail would never come into play.

Yes it is. As far as they knew/were told, it was.

 

[Darral27]

You're right, I don't know you and you don't know me or what I have done. But you made generalized statements about police officers that were completely uncalled for while evaluating this incident from the comfort of your couch. I would have not even responded to your posts had you left out the b.s. about trigger-happy cops.

My take on this with such a young kid, I would rather be shot and killed by a kid than have to live with shooting and killing a kid. I'm not talking about a 15 yo thug, but a 12yo playing in the park, c'mon. IMO this should not have happened.

Where is the part about trigger happy cops?

 

[Denny347]

If the gun had been real and if the kid had shot at the officer that would be up to the officer whether or not to return fire. I am saying if it was just me, I would not.

I have to wonder why you keep trying to take shots at me? You do not know me, you do not know my life, you do not know where I have been or what I have and have not done. Right from the beginning I said IMO and I would not shoot a person who is obviously a child.

Is evaluating and giving our opinion on a split second decision in the real world from the comfort of our couch not what we all do on here? Yourself included? In this thread and many others.

Age is irrelevant to a degree, its means and ability.

Frank and I are being criticized for NOT judging them and the judging from the couch is a bad habit that we should work on dropping.

 

[Darral27]

Yes it is. As far as they knew/were told, it was.

No it is not. They were told that somebody playing on a swing was waving a "probably toy" gun around. How many 20 somethings do this? As Que stated earlier you would have a hard time convincing me they thought this twelve year old was 20 once they saw him.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

You officers are so judgmental. Again I simply saying my opinion. Did us silly citizens lose that right and I have just not been made aware. Glad to know all you cops are so gung-ho about shooting kids. Also glad I don't go to Indy much.

You don't remember typing this?

 

[Darral27]

Age is irrelevant to a degree, its means and ability.

Frank and I are being criticized for NOT judging them and the judging from the couch is a bad habit that we should work on dropping.

If you have ever read any of my previous posts I try my best not to be judgmental because fact is I was not there. Normally I am on the side of giving the police or SD shooter benefit of the doubt. I am not anti police, actually just the opposite, I am very supportive of police and realize they have a difficult job. My job has taken to me to every ghetto in Nashville, TN and Indianapolis, many at times most people would not dream of going to these places. I know it can be pretty intimidating.

I also do not want to act like you and Frank are not entitled to your opinion. That is what these discussions are all about. It would not be fun if everybody just agreed every time. My only issue was with you and Frank Judging me based on the one line comment I posted originally with my opinion. I only said that is not what I would have done. IMO this should never have happened.

I do have to wonder which officer took the shots. The rookie or the 10 year veteran.

 

[Darral27]

You don't remember typing this?

That was aimed at you and Denny. Not my first post in this thread which you originally replied to. Once again if you want to try to bash me at least get it right.

 

[Gluemanz28]

My take on this with such a young kid, I would rather be shot and killed by a kid than have to live with shooting and killing a kid. I'm not talking about a 15 yo thug, but a 12yo playing in the park, c'mon. IMO this should not have happened.

Where is the part about trigger happy cops?

You keep saying that you would rather be shot and killed by the 12 year old then to defend yourself and fire at a threat with a gun. You have also said that you carry a gun for protection. Carrying a gun comes with a lot of responsibility. Not only to defend yourself but others in danger. My issue with the "you would rather let the boy shoot you" scares the crap out me that you would take a bullet and let the guy continue on a shooting spree, killing many other kids in the park.

Does your stance on what you would do make me want my grandchildren playing in any park that you are in? I would have to say no.

What happened was a tragic situation but there is never a perfect solution during an altercation, but plenty of perfect advise afterwards.

 

[Darral27]

You keep saying that you would rather be shot and killed by the 12 year old then to defend yourself and fire at a threat with a gun. You have also said that you carry a gun for protection. Carrying a gun comes with a lot of responsibility. Not only to defend yourself but others in danger. My issue with the "you would rather let the boy shoot you" scares the crap out me that you would take a bullet and let the guy continue on a shooting spree, killing many other kids in the park.

Does your stance on what you would do make me want my grandchildren playing in any park that you are in? I would have to say no.

What happened was a tragic situation but there is never a perfect solution during an altercation, but plenty of perfect advise afterwards.

You are changing the situation. The kid was not on a shooting spree in the park, there was no reason to think that was going to happen. If we are just throwing random scenarios let's change the 12 year old black boy to a 8 year old blonde haired girl in her Easter dress. Would you shoot her for playing with a toy gun?
I never once said what I would do in a mass shooting, I would do absolutely anything, and I mean anything to protect my children or your grandchildren, or anyone else's children. That is not the case in the instance in this thread.

i can assume and hope that you have never experienced what I have. Maybe that gives me a different view on this. I don't know. I do know that IMO and to me the life of a young child is more valuable than mine.

 

[Gluemanz28]

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I live in Elwood but I am not from Elwood. You act like Indy is some big, rough city. Lol. I have spent plenty of time in Indy as well as Nashville, TN. I'm not sure why you are both so offended that I say I would rather be shot myself than shoot a little kid. Is your job not to protect and serve? Maybe it has changed to kill kids with toy guns and I didn't see the update on the news. I am honestly not sure why either of you would be offended by my first post in this thread.
Denny, I am saying from looking at the picture shown the kid looked about 12. If the officers said different either the kid looked totally different or the officers need glasses, or they could be lying, I don't know.
Denny and Frank, did either of you play cops and robbers or cowboys and Indians as kids? I know I did, and back then toy guns looked pretty real, people just were not so stupid. I remember pretending like I was shooting at cars passing by along with my friends. Being a delivery driver in Indy and Nashville, TN. I have seen kids point toy guns at my deliver van pretending to shoot and you know what, I did not stop and kill any of those kids. I guess they are all very lucky they were not playing cops and robbers with either of you around or the parents would have had to bury them while you are sipping coffee and eating donuts.

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That was aimed at you and Denny. Not my first post in this thread which you originally replied to. Once again if you want to try to bash me at least get it right.

Denny and Frank are big boys and can take up for themselves just but the bashing started a long time ago.

Having a different opinion is what makes this forum great. Adding too much emotion and bashing is unnecessary.

 

[Darral27]

Denny and Frank are big boys and can take up for themselves just but the bashing started a long time ago.

Having a different opinion is what makes this forum great. Adding too much emotion and bashing is unnecessary.

Did you read them bashing me or did you just choose to skip those parts. Get what you give.

 

[Gluemanz28]

You are changing the situation. The kid was not on a shooting spree in the park, there was no reason to think that was going to happen. If we are just throwing random scenarios let's change the 12 year old black boy to a 8 year old blonde haired girl in her Easter dress. Would you shoot her for playing with a toy gun?
I never once said what I would do in a mass shooting, I would do absolutely anything, and I mean anything to protect my children or your grandchildren, or anyone else's children. That is not the case in the instance in this thread.

i can assume and hope that you have never experienced what I have. Maybe that gives me a different view on this. I don't know. I do know that IMO and to me the life of a young child is more valuable than mine.

I'm not changing anything. The call was for a MWAG in the park, not the nonsense you are adding. If it was a real gun and he was intent on hurting people it could have went bad real fast.

 

[Gluemanz28]

Did you read them bashing me or did you just choose to skip those parts. Get what you give.

I have been a part of this all the way through and I'm not siding with anybody. The truth stands all by itself.

 

[Trigger Time]

So did the kid even point the gun at the police before they shot him? Please tell me they didn't illegally murder this kid because they were trigger happy

 

[Trigger Time]

I know my comment is the opposite of the discussion, but we cannot dismiss the fact there are some real guns out there painted to look like toys and the bad guys have caught on. We now see pink, orange, purple, and lime green guns being sold straight from the manufacturer. The average Joe Blow would think they were toys. It would be impossible to make a correct decision to shoot or not when someone points a gun at you. Imagine how difficult it would be if a 12-year old deviennt pointed this at you?

very good point and Im embarrassed to say I hadn't thought of that before now.

 

[Gluemanz28]

So did the kid even point the gun at the police before they shot him? Please tell me they didn't illegally murder this kid because they were trigger happy

The report says that the officers told him to put his hands up and he went for the gun instead.

 

[Darral27]

I'm not changing anything. The call was for a WMWAG in the park, not the nonsense you are adding. If it was a real gun and he was intent on hurting people it could have went bad real fast.

So everybody with a gun in the park should be treated as if they are intent on killing everybody in the park. Many OC'ers would disagree with you. It is nonsense you are adding. There was no reason to believe the situation is anything like what you are saying. There is no statement by anybody involved as of now saying anyone believed this was going to be a mass shooting.