Cleveland 12 yr old with toy gun shot in park

[Denny347]

I am not judging anybody nor am I "force and tactics expert". The photo's of this child appear to be photo's of a child. I have children myself, one is a 12yo son. I do not believe for a second that when they saw this kid that they thought he was 20, that is just insane. All I said is I would rather be killed myself than to take the life of a young child. If you do not feel the same way Denny I am glad you are not an officer in my town because my 5yo likes toy guns.

The officers themselves described the kid as 20 yr old when the broadcast that they shot him and need an ambulance. I heard the tape. You saying that they were lying? The dispatcher told the officer that there was a 20yr old kid pointing a gun at strangers in the park...again I heard the transmission. What are you basing your certainty that they knew he was 12 on?

Your from Elwood huh? Quant. 12-14 yr old like to rob people with guns... real and fake...where I work, east side of Indy. I am glad you are far removed from my world but please do not presume to know it. The way an officer polices in Elwood would get them hurt out here... it's just a different world. I neither want to die or kill a kid but my actions are in response to others actions. Sometimes the choice is made for me.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

You officers are so judgmental. Again I simply saying my opinion. Did us silly citizens lose that right and I have just not been made aware. Glad to know all you cops are so gung-ho about shooting kids. Also glad I don't go to Indy much.

You wish. And thanks for staying out of Indy, we have enough tomfoolery as it is.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

He plays outside with them, yes. Some of them are nerf dart guns that are made to point at people much like air soft guns are, so yes. His babysitters husband is a police officer and they play so once again yes.
This was a kid at a park. Not some gangsta on a street corner.

Does your kid point the guns at strangers or on-duty cops that he doesn't know personally?

 

[Darral27]

I live in Elwood but I am not from Elwood. You act like Indy is some big, rough city. Lol. I have spent plenty of time in Indy as well as Nashville, TN. I'm not sure why you are both so offended that I say I would rather be shot myself than shoot a little kid. Is your job not to protect and serve? Maybe it has changed to kill kids with toy guns and I didn't see the update on the news. I am honestly not sure why either of you would be offended by my first post in this thread.
Denny, I am saying from looking at the picture shown the kid looked about 12. If the officers said different either the kid looked totally different or the officers need glasses, or they could be lying, I don't know.
Denny and Frank, did either of you play cops and robbers or cowboys and Indians as kids? I know I did, and back then toy guns looked pretty real, people just were not so stupid. I remember pretending like I was shooting at cars passing by along with my friends. Being a delivery driver in Indy and Nashville, TN. I have seen kids point toy guns at my deliver van pretending to shoot and you know what, I did not stop and kill any of those kids. I guess they are all very lucky they were not playing cops and robbers with either of you around or the parents would have had to bury them while you are sipping coffee and eating donuts.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I live in Elwood but I am not from Elwood. You act like Indy is some big, rough city. Lol. I have spent plenty of time in Indy as well as Nashville, TN. I'm not sure why you are both so offended that I say I would rather be shot myself than shoot a little kid. Is your job not to protect and serve? Maybe it has changed to kill kids with toy guns and I didn't see the update on the news. I am honestly not sure why either of you would be offended by my first post in this thread.
Denny, I am saying from looking at the picture shown the kid looked about 12. If the officers said different either the kid looked totally different or the officers need glasses, or they could be lying, I don't know.
Denny and Frank, did either of you play cops and robbers or cowboys and Indians as kids? I know I did, and back then toy guns looked pretty real, people just were not so stupid. I remember pretending like I was shooting at cars passing by along with my friends. Being a delivery driver in Indy and Nashville, TN. I have seen kids point toy guns at my deliver van pretending to shoot and you know what, I did not stop and kill any of those kids. I guess they are all very lucky they were not playing cops and robbers with either of you around or the parents would have had to bury them while you are sipping coffee and eating donuts.

I'm not offended. I don't appreciate you talking out your ass about the police. And I would beat my kid senseless if I ever caught them acting like they were pointing a gun at anyone they didn't know.

 

[Darral27]

You wish. And thanks for staying out of Indy, we have enough tomfoolery as it is.

I wish what? Did I miss something?
So now tomfoolery is saying I would not shoot a kid? Huh, interesting take I guess. I guess you new age coppers only want kid killers in your city.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I wish what? Did I miss something?
So now tomfoolery is saying I would not shoot a kid? Huh, interesting take I guess. I guess you new age coppers only want kid killers in your city.

Yes, you missed something. But I don't have the time nor the patience to explain it to you.

 

[Darral27]

I'm not offended. I don't appreciate you talking out your ass about the police.

How am I talking out my ass about the police? Need to see your cop shrink about this? I said I would rather be shot myself than shoot a kid. I didn't say it was you or anybody else saying it. I also said IMO this should not have happened. That means "in my opinion", I do have a right to that whether you like it or not.

 

[Darral27]

Yes, you missed something. But I don't have the time nor the patience to explain it to you.

I think you may be missing something other than time and patience.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

How am I talking out my ass about the police? Need to see your cop shrink about this? I said I would rather be shot myself than shoot a kid. I didn't say it was you or anybody else saying it. I also said IMO this should not have happened. That means "in my opinion", I do have a right to that whether you like it or not.

And like I said, you will never have to make that decision.

 

[Gluemanz28]

He plays outside with them, yes. Some of them are nerf dart guns that are made to point at people much like air soft guns are, so yes. His babysitters husband is a police officer and they play so once again yes.
This was a kid at a park. Not some gangsta on a street corner.

NO air soft or nerf guns are made to point at people. Show me where in the instructions it says to point the gun at someone. It is sad that the young boy died due to the result of a bad decision he made. If you are letting your son point a gun at anyone you are allowing your son to break the safety rules.

If your sons babysitter's husband is pointing a gun at the kids then he is breaking the safety rules.

It is your son and your choice but for my grandkids, they don't have toy guns. I take them to the range and teach them safety and allow them to shoot 22 rifles. They are 4, 5 & 6 year old boys. They will gladly give up play guns for what they have.


I for one would be proud to have Denny and Frank spen time with and around my kids anytime.

 

[Darral27]

And like I said, you will never have to make that decision.

You are probably right, but if I did I know what it would be and it scares the hell out of me that you two police officers think your life is so much more important than that twelve year old boys. I have never had to kill anybody but I have lost a child and I do know that pain. These parents now have to live with that pain and for what? Playing cops and robbers with a toy gun and you think that can be justified? Does a 12yo even really have the mental capacity to understand what is going on when being approached by police officers with guns drawn? "Protect and serve" is your job and it was the job of the officer who killed this kid. He did not do his job.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

You are probably right, but if I did I know what it would be and it scares the hell out of me that you two police officers think your life is so much more important than that twelve year old boys. I have never had to kill anybody but I have lost a child and I do know that pain. These parents now have to live with that pain and for what? Playing cops and robbers with a toy gun and you think that can be justified? Does a 12yo even really have the mental capacity to understand what is going on when being approached by police officers with guns drawn? "Protect and serve" is your job and it was the job of the officer who killed this kid. He did not do his job.

You are entitled to that opinion.

 

[Gluemanz28]

You are probably right, but if I did I know what it would be and it scares the hell out of me that you two police officers think your life is so much more important than that twelve year old boys. I have never had to kill anybody but I have lost a child and I do know that pain. These parents now have to live with that pain and for what? Playing cops and robbers with a toy gun and you think that can be justified? Does a 12yo even really have the mental capacity to understand what is going on when being approached by police officers with guns drawn? "Protect and serve" is your job and it was the job of the officer who killed this kid. He did not do his job.

This falls back on the parents not just the 12 year old boy. The kid could not purchase the gun by his self. The age limit law is to protect the children so that their the parents will make sure the child dosen't take it to a park or play outside pointing it at other kids.

 

[Darral27]

NO air soft or nerf guns are made to point at people. Show me where in the instructions it says to point the gun at someone. It is sad that the young boy died due to the result of a bad decision he made. If you are letting your son point a gun at anyone you are allowing your son to break the safety rules.

If your sons babysitter's husband is pointing a gun at the kids then he is breaking the safety rules.

It is your son and your choice but for my grandkids, they don't have toy guns. I take them to the range and teach them safety and allow them to shoot 22 rifles. They are 4, 5 & 6 year old boys. They will gladly give up play guns for what they have.


I for one would be proud to have Denny and Frank spen time with and around my kids anytime.

They sell protective gear to wear while playing airsoft. They have fields set up in some places much like paintball used to be so it may not say it on the box it comes in but that is what you do with them.
If you don't let your grand kids play with toy guns that is your business. Mine know the difference between real and fake and have also been to the range and know the safety rules. The babysitters is not breaking the safety rules because the safety rules are for real guns. Just like with video games my children know the difference between real and fake.
I did not comment in this thread to bash police. Police started bashing me for expressing my personal opinion that really had nothing to do with them. I simply said I would not have done it. Everybody else turned it into a pile on here.

 

[Darral27]

You are entitled to that opinion.

Took this long for you to agree that I am entitled to my opinion. Wow. I am so happy Frank has granted my 1st amendment rights.

 

[Darral27]

This falls back on the parents not just the 12 year old boy. The kid could not purchase the gun by his self. The age limit law is to protect the children so that their the parents will make sure the child dosen't take it to a park or play outside pointing it at other kids.

Because playing should not be done at parks dammit. You beat me down, I am with you, it is the parents fault their kid is dead. Not the fault of the officer who had his gun drawn on a 12 yo.

even the caller said multiple times the gun was probably a toy. I can picture it now, kid swinging on the swing set, waving his cool toy gun around making the pew-pew-pew sound with his mouth, hops off the swing and "holsters" his gun to head home, officers arrive with their guns drawn, kid freaks out thinking he is going to be in trouble and tries to take the gun out to hand it over. You guys are right, kid deserved to be killed. Hope it happens more to teach these parents a lesson.

insert purple where you feel it's needed.

 

[Gluemanz28]

They sell protective gear to wear while playing airsoft. They have fields set up in some places much like paintball used to be so it may not say it on the box it comes in but that is what you do with them.
If you don't let your grand kids play with toy guns that is your business. Mine know the difference between real and fake and have also been to the range and know the safety rules. The babysitters is not breaking the safety rules because the safety rules are for real guns. Just like with video games my children know the difference between real and fake.
I did not comment in this thread to bash police. Police started bashing me for expressing my personal opinion that really had nothing to do with them. I simply said I would not have done it. Everybody else turned it into a pile on here.

I'm pretty sure Jef Cooper said all guns. It is not a judgement call the the police should have to make, whether a toy gun is real or if the person is a thug (as you stated) or a clean cut american boy. Point a gun at the police and you risk being shot period.

Here are the safety rules for your reference:

[h=3]RULE 1
ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED[/h]The only exception to this occurs when one has a weapon in his hands and he has personally unloaded it for checking. As soon as he puts it down, Rule 1 applies again.​

[h=3]RULE 2
NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY[/h]You may not wish to destroy it, but you must be clear in your mind that you are quite ready to if you let that muzzle cover the target. To allow a firearm to point at another human being is a deadly threat, and should always be treated as such.​

[h=3]RULE 3
KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER TIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET[/h]This we call the Golden Rule because its violation is responsible for about 80 percent of the firearms disasters we read about.​

[h=3]RULE 4
BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET[/h]You never shoot at anything until you have positively identified it. You never fire at a shadow, or a sound, or a suspected presence. You shoot only when you know absolutely what you are shooting at and what is beyond it.​

 

[Darral27]

I'm pretty sure Jef Cooper said all guns. It is not a judgement call the the police should have to make, whether a toy gun is real or if the person is a thug (as you stated) or a clean cut american boy. Point a gun at the police and you risk being shot period.

Here are the safety rules for your reference:

RULE 1
ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

The only exception to this occurs when one has a weapon in his hands and he has personally unloaded it for checking. As soon as he puts it down, Rule 1 applies again.​

RULE 2
NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY

You may not wish to destroy it, but you must be clear in your mind that you are quite ready to if you let that muzzle cover the target. To allow a firearm to point at another human being is a deadly threat, and should always be treated as such.​

RULE 3
KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER TIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

This we call the Golden Rule because its violation is responsible for about 80 percent of the firearms disasters we read about.​

RULE 4
BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

You never shoot at anything until you have positively identified it. You never fire at a shadow, or a sound, or a suspected presence. You shoot only when you know absolutely what you are shooting at and what is beyond it.​

So by your logic here all airsoft, paintball, and laser tag facilities should be shut down. Stick guns, pop tart guns, banana guns should be banned. Kids should no longer allowed to play cops and robbers or cowboys and Indians.
You seem to forget even though you have young grandchildren that kids will be kids, it does not matter how much you "train" them. I have to ask if it was one of your grandchildren would you think it was ok? Would you think he got what he deserved? Point guns at cops (real or fake) and you get what you get. I doubt it, I would imagine you would be devastated and have all kinds of nasty thoughts running through your mind about what you want to do to the person that killed them.
My comment was and still is I would not have killed this kid, whether the gun was real or not. If it was me that had to die or him that had to die I would have chosen myself to die. It is a sad world that we live in that more adults, police included, do not agree with that.

 

[Gluemanz28]

I have taken some flack on here for my stand on toy guns from many members, including LEO. I also played cops and robbers as a kid and we pointed guns at each other. We even had BB gun fights. Did I survive through it ok? Yep sure did, but we are living in different times now.

I grew up in Muncie and I would get up in the morning and be gone all day long without a cell phone or any way of contacting mom and dad unless an emergency occurred. I knew that I had to be home when the street lights came on. I won't even let my grandkids ride around the block on their bikes unless I'm with them. Am I over protective, Maybe, but I know they are safe and they know the dangers the world has to offer.

I took them to the police station and had a uniformed officer come out and talk to them. They were afraid because of Mom and Dad saying things like "You better slow down a cop is over there" or the major issue we corrected already "If your not good I will have that policeman take you to jail". The officer squatted down explained to them about getting lost in stores and what to do if a stranger ask them to go with them. He spent about five to ten minutes with them. Before we left the officer asked if they were still afraid of the police and they said no.

It sounds to me that your kids have a police figure to respect and if they were presented the same situation as the 12 year old boy they would handle it correctly, but I don't want my Grandkids or the police to have to make the judgement call.