Cleveland 12 yr old with toy gun shot in park

[Kutnupe14]

I believe you have quoted my original post. My angle is I WOULD NOT HAVE SHOT HIM. Nobody is going to change that. That is not passing judgment on anyone. Everything else has been responding to others.
I did not post about my loss to change or affect anyone's argument, just simply to say there is a side of this I do have a deep understanding of.

If I'm placed in that situation... noting the shooter isn't the driver, I would have shot him, as soon as I identified him reaching for a gun. There's no way around that. If I was the other officer, and I had to shoot a person because you didn't have it in you, after that situation was concluded, at the very least, I would never trust you my life or fellow officers lives, and if I could I'd try to have you dismissed from the department.

 

[Darral27]

If I'm placed in that situation... noting the shooter isn't the driver, I would have shot him, as soon as I identified him reaching for a gun. There's no way around that. If I was the other officer, and I had to shoot a person because you didn't have it in you, after that situation was concluded, at the very least, I would never trust you my life or fellow officers lives, and if I could I'd try to have you dismissed from the department.

Im not a cop, never have been never will be.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Im not a cop, never have been never will be.

It's not for everybody. You often have to make decisions where all the options are bad.

 

[Gluemanz28]

I'm unfamilar with this instance, how did officers respond?

I did a quick search for one of them, but my search skills are not very good. I do remember one that didn't go very good for daddymikey. He was OC at a park with his son and somebody called in a MWAG to the police. The officer was mad that he had to make the call and gave him a hard time about it.

Another was posted by someone visiting in OHIO and the police arrived at a park to a MWAG call. The officer checked the guys credentials and[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif] told him he was perfectly legal to carry the firearm, but [/FONT]let the guy know that hhis car was parked within the halo of a school zone. He asked the guy to let his wife pick him up on the otherside of the park when they left.

 

[Gluemanz28]

It's not for everybody. You often have to make decisions where all the options are bad.

Very well said. Sad but true.

I'm glad that I don't have to make them. Sending prayers to all that do.

 

[prescut]

my comment is about the expressions used to negate all non LE comments. Monday morning quarterback and sitting on the couch. I don't believe these should be used in an open thread. Everybody but the two responding officers comments are monday morning quarterbacking and sitting on the couch. These are conversation killers. Most of us are not LEO, but love to shoot our mouths off. Try to be patient with us and realize we don't have to be cops to have something to say.
Lost

 

[Denny347]

my comment is about the expressions used to negate all non LE comments. Monday morning quarterback and sitting on the couch. I don't believe these should be used in an open thread. Everybody but the two responding officers comments are monday morning quarterbacking and sitting on the couch. These are conversation killers. Most of us are not LEO, but love to shoot our mouths off. Try to be patient with us and realize we don't have to be cops to have something to say.
Lost

Monday morning quaterbacking, my problem with it is that it is unproductive. Conversation killer? Not really, as that term is directed at those that have made their minds up that the officer is a child murderer. I've been on this forum since the beginning and seen most of all my LEO friends come and go from here because of the slant of many of the posters. PATIENTS is what keeps me here.

 

[Gluemanz28]

Most members on here know who the cop bashers are. To me they are petty and only make themselves look bad.

I can see how it would be tuff for somebody willing to put their life on the line to save the same person that slanders them. That would make it hard to hang around here.

I for one am thankful for the LEO on this forum and the insight they bring from their side of the badge.

 

[Denny347]

Most members on here know who the cop bashers are. To me they are petty and only make themselves look bad. I can see how it would be tuff for somebody willing to put their life on the line to save the same person that slanders them. That would make it hard to hang around here. I for one am thankful for the LEO on this forum and the insight they bring from their side of the badge.

It's the reason I stay. I find that most of the angst and animosity are a result of not understanding the process or the tactics we use. Remember, I was not BORN an LEO and did not become one until I was 24, I still remember what it was like prior to, I had my fair share of run ins with the law (nothing major). I take that perspective and add my unique perspective based on currently being an LEO and I hope to use that to build bridges. It's down right frustrating at times because for many of these incidents I can see the public's view of the issue but I have a difficult time having them see the incident through my LEO "eyes". We all have our biases. I work hard to see past mine but so many people cannot see past theirs.

 

[T755]

There are a few cop bashers on here. But I take solace in the fact that when their mom calls lights out after 10pm the forum returns to a sense of balance. I do find it curious that sometimes the arguments and positions they take are the same that the liberals use agains gun owners. You cannot have a view or opinion on this job unless you have done it. its not something you can read about or study. Just like the average lay person looks at a officer shooting a 12yr old as unacceptable and feels the cop should have tazed them or just took a bullet, a officer will look at it and unfortunate but no way around it in todays society. I would challenge those that think otherwise go ride a shift with a officer and gain some insight rather than spew opinions gleaned from late nights on Indy cop block.

 

[drillsgt]

You heard that from the tapes? That was told to the dispatcher but it was NOT relayed to the officers. Are we expected to know what was told to a dispatcher if the dispatcher does not let us know? It happens every day for us unfortunately.

It seems like this theme comes up quite often, perhaps the bar needs to be raised a few IQ points when hiring dispatchers.

 

[Denny347]

It seems like this theme comes up quite often, perhaps the bar needs to be raised a few IQ points when hiring dispatchers.

They really don't get paid well here in Indy at all and they work their butts off. For us, we have call-takers (dispatchers) and Control Operators. The 911 call comes in to the dispatcher. They typw up the run and send it to the Control Operator. The CO is the person who we talk to on the radio on a regular basis. There are too many calls for one person to be able to talk on the phone and also take care of us on the radio at the same time. Now the problem with that is that with the extra layer, we get information left out all the time as you could imagine. But a good CO is a life saver...literally. I know a few that have been the CO for a couple of officers murdered while on the radio. I cannot imagine the grief they feel hearing their last words and not being able to leave their work station to assist. They really do not get paid enough.

 

[Gluemanz28]

Call takers are given bad information at times as well. I was in Minneapolis, MN and some wigged out guy pulled in a parking lot and got angry because somebody backed out of a spot and he had to wait. He started power breaking his truck and then pulled in so hard and fast into a parking spot that his truck abruptly stopped on the parking curb. There was a guy next to him and looked at him like "Man whats up dude".

The wigged out guy got out and started shouting obscene words at him and beating on his window. Then threatening bodily harm to him. The driver of the car started backing out trying to get out of there. Wigged out dude opened his passenger side truck door and grabbed something, then took off across the parking lot on foot chasing the car. The guy in the car got away unharmed.

Wigged out dude came back over to the area by his truck and screamed while scanning the area "Does anybody else have a problem". He then opened the truck door and threw the object back in the door pocket, then went inside a restaurant.

I was in my car sending an email and noticed a girl come out of a store next door on her phone. I rolled down my window and heard her talking to what I thought was the police. I told her if she was on the phone with the police to let them know that he had some sort of object in his passenger side door pocket.

I heard her say "The guy has a gun in his truck". Within just a couple minutes two squad cars roll in and one of the officers start talking to the girl. She then sends them to me when they ask her about the gun she reported. I get out of my car and tell the officer that I never saw a gun. I actually could't see what it was at all, only the sound it made when he pitched it back into his truck door pocket.

About that time wigged out dude walks out of the restaurant and the girls points him out. The officer draws his weapon and orders the guy to get on the ground. They check the guy out for warrants, after he clears, they let him go on his way.

The officer let me know that he had a pair of heavy duty lineman pliers in his door pocket. I'm guessing he was going to bust the window out of the guys car to get at him.

I thought I was doing the right thing to let the officer rolling in know about the object, but after the girl turned it into a gun I realized it was blown out of proportion.

Too many people say MWAG to get a faster response.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

a officer will look at it as unfortunate but no way around it in todays society.

When dead kids are looked at as unavoidable collateral damage, that sends a bit of a shiver down my spine.

 

[Yup!]

Monday morning quaterbacking, my problem with it is that it is unproductive. Conversation killer? Not really, as that term is directed at those that have made their minds up that the officer is a child murderer. I've been on this forum since the beginning and seen most of all my LEO friends come and go from here because of the slant of many of the posters. PATIENTS is what keeps me here.

yes Dr.

 

[Denny347]

yes Dr.

You know what I meant....

 

[johnwhite]

Are you surprised? The first thing they do is try to twist the truth.

In the audio recording I just heard on CBS news, they officer describes the boy a black male, 20. Are you freaking kidding me? No 12 yr old looks 20. They rolled in fast on the kid, allegedly yelled at him to drop the gun and then shot him 2 seconds later.

are joking? really have you looked around you these days we have 12yo girls with 36DD and boys the same age growing facial hair

 

[ModernGunner]

Wholeheartedly disagree with any of the "If I was the LEO, I know what I would've done" type rhetoric. No, you don't. If one has never been in that sort of scenario, and even plenty of LEO's have not, that person has no idea what they'd do, period. Such rhetoric typically comes from watching too many 'cop movies' and episodes of "24".

An earlier poster stated emphatically, "This 12 yr old is no where a man sized human." How big, exactly, IS a "man sized human"? I'm certain almost everyone in this thread has seen an adult male at or under 5' 6" in stature, certainly within the size of some 12 year-old males, depending on his genetics. I would also remind readers that Audie Murphy, one of the most highly decorated American soldiers in history, was a 'mere' 5' 5" tall. Again, valueless rhetoric.

This situation is a tragedy, to be sure. But so far, the bad judgement appears to have been on the part of Tamir Rice, and likely his parents (or absence thereof). Further evidence coming to light may change that, but until that point it appears to be a tragic yet justifiable shooting.

 

[actaeon277]

 

[T755]

When dead kids are looked at as unavoidable collateral damage, that sends a bit of a shiver down my spine.

Do my job and see what people are capable of doing to each other on a daily basis and you'll understand why reality of society should be what shivers you.