CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: General Religious Discussion...

[indiucky]

A little Jordan Peterson talking about the metaphorical side of the bible....

[video=youtube;VyiQl91EBzk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyiQl91EBzk[/video]

 

[indiucky]

When my grandparents home burned (one heck of another story, the family that lived there was murdered, from Grandma to young children) long before I was a twinkle in anyone's eye, my grandmother dragged one kid out with one hand, and the Bible in the other.
The bible was the only personal possession they had after the fire...
Two adults, four boys of their own, three adopted boys, three of the kids didn't even have shoes and one didn't own a shirt, but the bible got saved.

Look up the "Wratten Family Murders" and that was the house they were living in when it burned.
Since it happened in 1893, before my grandparents were born, I'm sure I'm not the expert to consult but there is TONS been written about it.
I grew up walking/driving past a grave marker in a hog lot where they buried the convicted killer, and every tourist had to stop & ask about the Murders... Like I had some inside scoop on murders that happened in 1893 and it was the 1960s/70s...

What county are your people from? That story sounds familiar...We are Mulenberg/Ohio/Grayson county people....

 

[T.Lex]

So God changed his mind or his strategy?

How do we handle the fact that scripture says that Jesus is the exact imprint of God (Hebrews 1:3), and that He only did what he saw the Father doing (John 5:19-20), and that in Jesus all the fullness of God was in bodily form (Col 2:9)? Did God's character change between NT and OT?

God is not static. He has the power to change his mind on things.

Abraham and Hezekiah both successfully (sorta) negotiated with God. He is "allowed" to listen to the prayers of the faithful.

The second covenant, IMHO, does represent a change of strategy. One transcendent theme of the OT is all the things that the Chosen either got wrong or had right for awhile, before losing their way. Wiping the slate clean and trying something new makes sense.

Of course, God's will need not "make sense" to us. I'm just saying that I have no problem believing that a change of strategy was intended.

 

[JeepHammer]

What county are your people from? That story sounds familiar...We are Mulenberg/Ohio/Grayson county people....

"Where are your people from?"
You have to be a certain kind of 'Hillbilly' to hear that one! Has a WHOLE different meaning to hillbillies you can't explain to 'City' people!

It's Daviess County Indiana, family by way of Kentucky, north/central, west of Louisville.
And yes, the family used to be 'Distillers'... (Always the next question when they find out the family name)

Farmers until the 'Union' took the family land to build 'Camp Knox' during the 'Civil' war and evicted them.
Seems being generations of outspoken anti-slavery held no sway, if you were from south of the Ohio River, you were a 'Rebel'.

They moved north to the Ohio River and became distillers on what people call the 'Burbon Trail' now, the rest crossed the river and became farmers again in Indiana.
Prohibition put the distillers, and their families out on the street, they moved north where the rest of the family was.

'The Great Depression' hit with a LOT of mouths to feed, and you couldn't sell corn by the bushel, and the 'New' (circa 1928) WPA bridge took the river ferry business away,
So they sold corn by the gallon to feed the kids.

My grandpa stayed single until he was 28 so a married man wouldn't have to do prison time, just in case...
No one did prison time, but it was very possible.

It's THAT family...

AND THEN...
The state took the Indiana farm land for a state park area just about the time the family was getting back on their feet, giving $6 an acre for land they paid $60 an acre for before it was cleared...
More of an insult than just taking the land outright.

The state burned the structures, and flooded the creek bottom land for a fishing lake.
So my grandparents moved into a shack that an entire family got murdered in, just to have a roof over the heads of a new family...
The only thing they could afford when you get $6 an acre for land that should have brought $600 an acre.
That didn't go well.

And them are 'My People'...
If you asked the way I think you did, you probably know the family name.

 

[JettaKnight]

But we also have to be honest when it comes to God commanding the Israelites to keep the captive virgin women for themselves and killing all of the others. It's brutal. It's in the Bible and we have to be intellectually honest about it.

I'm in the middle of a book "A More Christ-like God", which addresses some of these issues but certain passages of scripture can still be difficult to deal with.

Interesting. The title makes me suspect, and the endorsements listed on Amazon are a "who's who" of modern liberal theologians.

A good book on this is Slaves, Women and Homosexuals.

It lays out the concept of biblical hermaneutics - i.e. what is the Bible saying to us, by looking at the text in light of the recipients culture.

 

[JettaKnight]

To me it's just a hateful bunch of ignorant, mean people hiding behind religion that I have as little to do with as possible.

There's benefits to living in suburbia up North - getting to avoid those sorts of people is one of them.

 

[indiucky]

"Where are your people from?"
You have to be a certain kind of 'Hillbilly' to hear that one! Has a WHOLE different meaning to hillbillies you can't explain to 'City' people!

It's Daviess County Indiana, family by way of Kentucky, north/central, west of Louisville.
And yes, the family used to be 'Distillers'... (Always the next question when they find out the family name)

Farmers until the 'Union' took the family land to build 'Camp Knox' during the 'Civil' war and evicted them.
Seems being generations of outspoken anti-slavery held no sway, if you were from south of the Ohio River, you were a 'Rebel'.

They moved north to the Ohio River and became distillers on what people call the 'Burbon Trail' now, the rest crossed the river and became farmers again in Indiana.
Prohibition put the distillers, and their families out on the street, they moved north where the rest of the family was.

'The Great Depression' hit with a LOT of mouths to feed, and you couldn't sell corn by the bushel, and the 'New' WPA bridge took the river ferry business away,
So they sold corn by the gallon to feed the kids.
It's THAT family...
My grandpa stayed single until he was 28 so a married man wouldn't have to do prison time, just in case... No one did prison time, but it was very possible.

AND THEN...
The state took the farm land for a state park area just about the time the family was getting back on their feet, giving $6 an acre for land they paid $60 an acre for before it was cleared...

So my grandparents moved into a shack that several murders happened in just to have a roof over the heads of a new family...
That didn't go well.

And them are 'My People'...

Sounds familiar...Papaw hitched an ICC out of Muhlenberg County when his sister's husband found work at the K&I RR before the war...By 1970 I had roughly 30 relatives working there, even the Geary women married railroaders...He was the son of a sharecropper with nine brothers and sisters...His father and uncle had to leave Grayson over a "killing" as they were worried about retaliation...On an election day in the 1920's the chickens came home to roost and pap's brother and nephew were shot down in cold blood in Moorman, Muhlenburg county in front of the post office....That ended the feud....

Crazy times back then....

"Death by hoe" seems to be a common theme.....

 

[JettaKnight]

So God changed his mind or his strategy?

How do we handle the fact that scripture says that Jesus is the exact imprint of God (Hebrews 1:3), and that He only did what he saw the Father doing (John 5:19-20), and that in Jesus all the fullness of God was in bodily form (Col 2:9)? Did God's character change between NT and OT?

I'd say he changed his mode of operation.

He still hates sin, it's just no longer necessary to kill'em all. We still are covered with sin, but no longer do we need to hold to ceremonial laws and sacrifice animals to make ourselves clean.

In both cases, a "better way" has been presented (Jesus Christ), but God's character remains the unchanged.


I hate lettuce. I used to go into the kitchen of restaurants and burn every head of lettuce I found, with great vengeance and fury. Now, I just toss it to the side of my plate. My character hasn't changed (I still don't accept lettuce because it's gross), but how I deal with the problem has.




Without the gruesomeness of the past, the glory of Christ doesn't shine as bright.

 

[GTM]

Interesting. The title makes me suspect, and the endorsements listed on Amazon are a "who's who" of modern liberal theologians.

A good book on this is Slaves, Women and Homosexuals.

It lays out the concept of biblical hermaneutics - i.e. what is the Bible saying to us, by looking at the text in light of the recipients culture.

Actually it's written by an Eastern Orthodox reader and monastery pastor who was an Evangelical pastor for 20 years. It doesn't have anything to do with controversial cultural topics, rather it's about fully embracing and understanding how the Incarnation and crucifixion fully reveal the depth of God's love and character.

 

[JeepHammer]

There's benefits to living in suburbia up North - getting to avoid those sorts of people is one of them.

With much smaller population, at least we can keep track of potential threats.

I don't even come close to connecting this bunch with a ligitimate 'Church', it's a cover and everyone knows it.
It's the down side of free religion, you take the good with the bad, doesn't mean you don't keep an eye on them!

As the town declined, more and more skechy people moved in.
I assume it's equal to 'Urban Decline' in cities, drugs & crime go up while long time citizens simply give up and move away making cheap room for more skechy people...

It's a shame too, with river frontage and infrastructure in place, it would have been a nice place to develope, but these people keep running business off or harassing new, legit owners and long time residents.
There is a reason I live in the woods with the nearest neighbor a mile away...

 

[JettaKnight]

We need some Ravi Zacharias.
[video=youtube;OhAxN4pCjp4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhAxN4pCjp4[/video]

 

[Bartman]

I had a shower thought today. It’s become common practice to thank veterans for their service. It’s not as common to thank a clergy member for their service.

We may complement them on a particular sermon but you don’t hear that general appreciation for devoting their lives to the welfare and salvation of others.

I’m going to try to make a habit (no pun intended) of showing my appreciation for clergy, regardless of their denomination.

With the possible exception of snake handlers.

 

[JettaKnight]

Well we thank veterans because the risk their lives, so... snake handlers...

 

[JeepHammer]

Sounds familiar...Papaw hitched an ICC out of Muhlenberg County when his sister's husband found work at the K&I RR before the war...By 1970 I had roughly 30 relatives working there, even the Geary women married railroaders...He was the son of a sharecropper with nine brothers and sisters...His father and uncle had to leave Grayson over a "killing" as they were worried about retaliation...On an election day in the 1920's the chickens came home to roost and pap's brother and nephew were shot down in cold blood in Moorman, Muhlenburg county in front of the post office....That ended the feud....

Crazy times back then....

"Death by hoe" seems to be a common theme.....

My grandpa's stories from his grandpa we're pretty crazy!

During my young years, you would get your butt whooped at the drop of a hat.
We learned to say "Yes Sir" and "No Mam", and you didn't talk smack if you valued your teeth.

Around here, the worst of the worst simply disappeared.
I remember one guy, we would call him a 'Thug' now, decided to beat, rape & stab a 12 year old girl and leave her for dead (she didn't die), and even being one of the locals, he simply vanished.
My grandpa wouldn't talk about it at all, but my dad speculated several decades later, his own family took care of him and he never left the family property.
My grandparents were VERY close with the family, and my dad speculated my grandpa was probably consulted before it happened, which is why he simply wouldn't talk about it.
The local sheriff was a neighbor, and they just stopped looking for him after a frantic man hunt just days before, so dad was pretty sure he was clued in also.

Even into the 60s/70s it was a TIGHT, TOUGH bunch...

The neighborhood took in a collective deep breath when I moved back here, all I can say is we don't have the meth-heads out this way anymore.
They went to jail or found other, more hospitable residences, and it was all their choice.
I don't have cranky old neighbors, I AM the cranky old neighbor
Me buying the 'Abandoned' coal mine property (actually waiting for reclamation to be cleared by the state, not abandoned) took away a ground/land that didn't have supervision, and that always attracts the wrong crowd...
Someone in residence got rid of a lot of problems.

I have good neighbors, some are old school, some are screwballs (like me), some are clueless, some are just trying to raise families and get by.
I can't say I have an outright 'Bad' neighbor...
I have more issues with the state area than I do with neighbors, seems the state *Thinks* they still have free run of the property, and I have to correct them once in a while... Owning the property across the road doesn't mean they own mine, and that has been an issue.

Other than an occasional hunter or some of those 4 wheeler idiots that think they can come from town and run wild, it's pretty quiet now the meth-heads are gone.

I couldn't figure out why the surviving old folks showed up at my dad's funeral, most from my grandpa's generation,
But I found out they fed a LOT of people during the great depression, and even donated materials to build the local church when it burned.
Alcohol one direction, brick tiles to rebuild the church when they came back. I never knew that...
That dear old woman informed me my grandpa brought ceramic/brick tiles so 'Their Church' couldn't burn again, and she took great pride in that.
She also confessed she had a huge crush on my grandpa, her being all of 12 or 13 at the time...

Another of the elders told me the ceramic tile was 'Factory Seconds' grandpa & company got for nearly nothing, but getting that heavy tile trucked by horse & wagon on mud roads for 100 miles was going to cost more than the tile, so they did it themselves.
I can't even imagine.
That same elder told me grandpa & friends didn't say anything to anyone, tile just started showing up on the church property...
They finally put it together when the 'boys' got back from a trip, more tile showed up.

The funny thing was, it wasn't my grandparents church, it was just a local church.

They don't make people like that anymore, and I'm just trying not to disgrace the memory of them... The best I can hope for...

 

[HoughMade]

We need some Ravi Zacharias.
[video=youtube;OhAxN4pCjp4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhAxN4pCjp4[/video]

We always can use some Ravi.

As an aside, his ability to politely address those who have no intention of being objective or polite....I cannot replicate.

 

[JeepHammer]

Well we thank veterans because the risk their lives, so... snake handlers...

I know it's a joke, but I still want to slap you for making that 'Connection'...

It makes my replacement joints ache with the very idea... But at least I still have the limbs to ache, so I'm not as bad off as a lot of vets...

 

[NKBJ]

Ever looked into why our creator said to kill not just everyone, but everything?
He did that when He saw that it was warranted.

 

[JettaKnight]

For JeepHammer:

(Hope this shows up: Today's Dilbert)

 

[JeepHammer]

'Coded' or not, I'm still asking questions...

 

[JettaKnight]

'Coded' or not, I'm still asking questions...

And I pray God will bless you for asking.