Don't mind me derailing this thread... just watching five hours of Alex Jones on Joe Rogan, now they're talking about Ezekiel 100% being a story about an alien encounter.
Thoughts?
OK, so please alone me to address each one of these points. A lot of them are arguments I haven't heard before, so I'm going to flex my brain muscle and do some checking.Historical lense.... Current bible, "The Word Of God".
I'm a bit confused, Spanish wasn't recorded before the 9th century, so I'm unsure how you think the Greek name Ἰησοῦς is derived from a language that would come into being for another 800 years.1. Hebrew/Jewish with a Spanish name. There is no Hebrew/Jewish comparable name to this day, Jewish use Jesus.
Joseph, or in Hebrew יוֹסֵף, dates to at least the 5th century BC.2. Parents have European names that have roots in traditional names from the middle east, but not traditional middle eastern/Hebrew names that were used at the time.
How exactly early English translators came up with Jesus, Joseph and Mary (Ha! I sound like a surprised Irish Catholic woman!), is somewhat irrelevant as they are recorded as Ἰησοῦς, Ἰωσήφ, and Μαρία, by Luke and others in the first century.At the very least, it's a bad translation screwed up by humans if you believe 'God' isn't capable of a mistake.
You know, I lament unrealistic depictions of the tall, handsome, well coifed Jesus by El Greco and others. I cringe every Xmas when I see "white baby Jesus" in mangers. I'm not sure what else I can say except racial bias isn't unique to America.3. Would have been 'Average' about 5'3" tall, had a pronounced nose, a thicker lower lip than top lip, a rounded, flatter face than Europeans do. Dark skinned, dark hair & dark eyes simply because all Jewish people had those features on average 2,000+ years ago.
I disagree. The earliest is when Jesus made those claims about himself. Then, John lays it all out in his gospel. Furthermore, Paul is none to subtle in his claims of divinity in the mid first century.4. The earliest reference to 'Jesus' being 'Devine' was about 200 years AFTER 'Jesus' died,and that reference was in Rome (state, not city).
I believe you're referencing the First Council of Nicaea. Just because the result was the first creed, and formalization of the doctrine of Christology, doesn't mean the belief wasn't widely held before then. Honestly, it's been quite a while since I study the various councils, Foszoe would be the guy to address those further.5. Constantine (the great) convened the council of divinity to decide if 'Jesus' was 'Devine', or a composite/created being.
I find it incredibly interesting when Christians who ostensibly believe God created the Universe, he freed the slaves in Egypt, Jesus performed all sorts of miracles, took on the sin of mankind at death, resurrected... yet the virgin birth gives them heartburn? Doesn't Matthew 1:18-25 clear all this up?6. Let's not forget that the Hebrew words for 'Virgin' & 'Maiden' (unmarried) were entirely different.
The Greek translation switched 'Maiden' (unmarried) for 'Virgin'. Anything from a translation error to completely changing the story...
Not tracking.It's also the reason for the council of divinity that lasted for 300 years...
The fact is, it doesn't. It's not a scientific treatise about creation of the universe. It does describe why the universe was created. The early Hebrews didn't care about how so much as why. In contrast, our fact-based scientific society is more concerned about how instead of why. Unfortunately, the Bible was written to the Hebrews, so we don't get the answers we want from the Bible. That's were science gives us the answers. That's why science and religion complement each other - one says how, one say why.How would an old book tell me how the universe was created when religious dogma says Earth is the center of the solar system and the sun/planets revolve around it?
Let's agree to disagree. The theory of evolution is still evolving. E.g. What ever happened to punctuated equillibrium?Evolution isn't up for debate, it's conclusively proven fact.
I don't believe in extraterrestrial life.Show me an alien spacecraft that's stamped "Made In Alpha Centauri" and I will consider space traveling aliens...
I think you're hinting at the coincidence of flood stories in many wide cultures. To me that seems to go to its veracity. If you have other specific issues, I'll address them.One thing about comparative religion, you learn where all the books of the bible were co-opted from, what the actual source was.
This pretty conclusively proves it's not what the bible claims it is.
The Bible makes no mention of the date or even season of Christ birth. Let's face it, there's a whole lot of man made myths about Xmas, e.g. Three Wise Men. None of this changes the actual recorded history, or lessens Christ's impact or mission. Perhaps Foszoe will chime in about the early church. But, I do know that even today, exact dates of birth aren't as important in Eastern cultures as they are in Western cultures.From the birth of Jesus, Mary & Joseph (nice European names) were on their way to register in the Roman census.
Roman census was during the "Ides Of March", simply meaning the middle of March.
It also states "The shepherds where in the fields", the only time shepherds stay in the field was during birthing season, usually the first two weeks in March or a little longer.
So why did the deity get his most holy day of birth moved to December? (Co-opted 'Pegan' holiday)
Not sure what you mean by "moved". It's clearly recorded that it coincided with Passover.Why was the 'Resurrection' moved to spring? (Co-opting of Ester, another Pegan holiday)
The 'Resurrection' is the basis of the entire religion, why would the church move the date?
Why did so many people die for a myth? The disciples were all there, so presumably they all knew it was just one big hoax. They had no power, they had no wealth, just scorn, torture, and death; yet they persevered until the end.Why was the council of divinity formed in the first place, and why 300+ years after the resurrection to determine *IF* Jesus was divine, or just a man/myth?
Why did it take 300 years for the council to decide their deity was 'divine' or not? (because they would loose power & wealth if declared just a man/myth).
There is. First, there's the gospels. Four separate account of Christ from direct witnesses. In any other context for the time period, this would be sufficient, yet for the Bible, somehow the bar gets moved way higher...This is history, not legend, written about extensively AT THE TIME, while there isn't a single reference of 'Jesus' from his own time.
They've been answered multiple times to multiple people and written in multiple books.These are questions a lot of people have and exactly zero have been answered, and I've only met religious historians that won't melt down at the mention of these questions...
Don't mind me derailing this thread... just watching five hours of Alex Jones on Joe Rogan, now they're talking about Ezekiel 100% being a story about an alien encounter.
Thoughts?
Switching to science, new paragraph, changing gears...
Science has found a direct relationship between the number of connections between the amygdala & temporal lobe in the human brain and faith.
People of faith have had these connections damaged, and those surviving that kind of brain damage, and still able to communicate report a loss of faith.
I full well admit this is a small test group since brain damage deep enough to reach these areas usually don't survive or communicate coherently,
But the recent wars produced an unusual number of surviving traumatic brain injuries.
Now, it's been dubbed 'The God Spot'.
Don't mind me derailing this thread... just watching five hours of Alex Jones on Joe Rogan, now they're talking about Ezekiel 100% being a story about an alien encounter.
Thoughts?
OK, starting over...
I've never been able to have a conversation with Judeo-Christian-Islam based religion believer without an issue.
I also don't know anyone else seeking an explanation of 'Belief' without issues with the same.
You have to realize if you want to continue... that connecting religious people with brain damage is not productive, and not positive, and not going to illicit a reasoned response.
You're throwing that out as a jab, because it has absolutely nothing to do with any of the conversations going on right now.
If you ask me,
Alex Jones is bat s**t crazy, he's WAY past the run of the mill crazy.
Joe Rogan will say anything to keep an audience, but solves ZERO issues, and needs an education on EVERYTHING.
You have to realize if you want to continue... that connecting religious people with brain damage is not productive, and not positive, and not going to illicit a reasoned response.
You're throwing that out as a jab, because it has absolutely nothing to do with any of the conversations going on right now.
With religion AND pure science interested, and so very few things that attract the attention of both, it's rare to be sure, which piques my interest even more.
Then, speaking as someone that isn't really on either side of this conversation... I'm not a militant atheist, and I'm not a devout Christian...
When I read your posts, you come off as a labratory scientist, observing and speaking to the people in this thread as though they were lab rats or subjects to be studied.
That... has a little bit of a superiority whiff to it. Again, you do you, no need to heed whatever my observations are... but perhaps coming off more as an equal would be more beneficial to everyone involved. "They" may learn more about you, and you may learn more about "them"... without it seeming like you're using them as an experiment or something.
Or maybe I'm the only one seeing it that way.
I will say, however, I have been enjoying the banter here lately. I do like what you're bringing to the thread, and the responses to you. It's interesting, on every side.
OK, starting over...
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seeking an explanation of 'Belief'.
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As for hard core religious believers, it's been my experience that some still believe in slavery, chopping off hands, basically all the bad parts of the Judeo-Christian-Islam texts.
These people also seem to think ignoring the parts about divorce, hard drink, lying, cheating, stealing etc., And they don't forgive ANYTHING, those parts don't seem to apply to THEM, or the modern day.
This would make anyone wonder if they were dealing with a sociopath or psychopath rather than a 'True Believer' since the parts they choose benefits THEM.
One breath saying they are 'Good Christians'Since, the next relating stories about beating some 'idiot' out of his money, jacking up costs when dealing with people ignorant of his particular occupation, padding the bill... Doesn't quite jibe with the claim of being a good Christian.
This confuses me and I have a LOT more questions than answers when it happens...
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*IF* self examination were a path to 'Faith', then about every vet should have 'Faith'.
Any thoughts on why that doesn't happen in so many cases?
Don't mind me derailing this thread... just watching five hours of Alex Jones on Joe Rogan, now they're talking about Ezekiel 100% being a story about an alien encounter.
Thoughts?
science answers how it cannot answer why.
There are groups out there with fringe ideas, but I've NEVER met a Christian who thinks slavery is ok