CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: General Religious Discussion...

[T.Lex]

While we're at it, the Vatican bank has had many scandals over the years.

https://www.businessinsider.com/gods-bankers-financial-scandals-at-the-vatican-2015-2

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...to-trial-on-embezzlement-charge-idUSKCN1GE2IF

 

[churchmouse]

I do not come through here very often. Today I had to look in.

keep it real people.

 

[historian]

keep it real people.

Well, since it is general discussion. What is reality? How can we keep it "real" until we define "real"?

 

[churchmouse]

Well, since it is general discussion. What is reality? How can we keep it "real" until we define "real"?

Well lets start with that.....

 

[T.Lex]

Nothing to see here. Nothing upside down or anything.

 

[historian]

Nothing to see here. Nothing upside down or anything.

Especially cakes with tropical fruit!

 

[2A_Tom]

You guys kill me. I leave one thread talking about PUDC and here it is all over.

Now I need to get my wife to make me one.

 

[T.Lex]

So, WTHR reporting that the Archdiocese of Indianapolis released a statement saying a 79 year old retired priest has been suspended due to a credible allegation of child sex abuse from decades ago.

I bring this up not as a show of any meritorious conduct by church officials in the story, but to point out that the times have changed. Not only is the priest suspended, but a press release was issued making it public.

Progress.

 

[Ziggidy]

So, WTHR reporting that the Archdiocese of Indianapolis released a statement saying a 79 year old retired priest has been suspended due to a credible allegation of child sex abuse from decades ago.

I bring this up not as a show of any meritorious conduct by church officials in the story, but to point out that the times have changed. Not only is the priest suspended, but a press release was issued making it public.

Progress.

It is progress. I would like to see everyone who covered this up and/or knew about it go to jail. That will send a GREAT example out to all.

 

[T.Lex]

It is progress. I would like to see everyone who covered this up and/or knew about it go to jail. That will send a GREAT example out to all.

You mean, they should go to jail if they committed a crime that can be prosecuted, right?

 

[Ziggidy]

You mean, they should go to jail if they committed a crime that can be prosecuted, right?

Yes, that is correct.

 

[T.Lex]

The Archdiocese of Gary released names and brief facts about allegations within that jurisdiction.

http://www.dcgary.org/pdf/082718.pdf

The first guy was actually involved in a lawsuit. A "John Doe" minor sued him and the diocese. There's a summary judgment entry that shows diocesan officials had suspicions and warned him about certain conduct that was suspicious. He had been accused of things in Florida and been removed from public ministry there. The guy broke the rules of the diocese about going on trips with minors and having them stay at the rectory. The case was settled before trial, probably for a significant amount.

The second guy on the list doesn't have as much detail, but a similar lawsuit in a similar timeframe. Also settled.

Didn't see anything in a quick search on the other guys on the list.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

For my catholic friends...

Do you believe this story is true? Maybe it's just the sources in my news feeds but these stories painting a homosexual problem on the priests seem to keep dripping out.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/3525...content=062316-podcast&utm_campaign=mattwalsh

 

[foszoe]

For my catholic friends...

Do you believe this story is true? Maybe it's just the sources in my news feeds but these stories painting a homosexual problem on the priests seem to keep dripping out.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/3525...content=062316-podcast&utm_campaign=mattwalsh

A good source for Catholic news...

EWTN Mobile

 

[T.Lex]

For my catholic friends...

Do you believe this story is true? Maybe it's just the sources in my news feeds but these stories painting a homosexual problem on the priests seem to keep dripping out.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/3525...content=062316-podcast&utm_campaign=mattwalsh

That's the same story that GPiasfuhgusinudhghnn posted yesterday (?) I think.

The Pope almost certainly knew he was letting the prestigious apartment go to the personal assistant of the one cardinal over the assistant to the other cardinal.

I'm not sure the Pope knew that the priest getting the apartment was a gay cocaine cowboy.

I'm almost positive the Pope didn't know there would drug fueled gay orgies in the apartment.

With a celibate priesthood, any sort of sexual issue is going to be big news. I don't know that there's more gays, as a percentage, in the priesthood than the population at large. But, when they make the news, seems like we all find out about it.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

That's the same story that GPiasfuhgusinudhghnn posted yesterday (?) I think.

The Pope almost certainly knew he was letting the prestigious apartment go to the personal assistant of the one cardinal over the assistant to the other cardinal.

I'm not sure the Pope knew that the priest getting the apartment was a gay cocaine cowboy.

I'm almost positive the Pope didn't know there would drug fueled gay orgies in the apartment.

With a celibate priesthood, any sort of sexual issue is going to be big news. I don't know that there's more gays, as a percentage, in the priesthood than the population at large. But, when they make the news, seems like we all find out about it.

I'm considering the source when I post this but there was this one line:

“Pope Francis had been informed by someone about Luigi Capozzi's problems,” the source told LifeSite, “but he gave him anyway the apartment.”

 

[PaulF]

For my catholic friends...

Do you believe this story is true? Maybe it's just the sources in my news feeds but these stories painting a homosexual problem on the priests seem to keep dripping out.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/3525...content=062316-podcast&utm_campaign=mattwalsh

I'm going to leave the salacious details aside and try to focus on what I think is your point...does the Catholic Church have overrepresentation of Homosexuals compared to the average comparable lay population?

Everyone here knows me as the outspoken Atheist, but I was raised in a devout family surrounded by a traditional Catholic community. I graduated from a Catholic high school, and I attended a Catholic college.

I have gotten to meet a fair number of priests, monks, and nuns over the years and (speaking only from my own experiences here) I think it's pretty much self-evident that an unusually high percentage of Catholic Religious are gay.

I was friends with a Franciscan Friar in high school and college, and we regularly discussed aspects of life in the Church's orbit. We talked extensively about this. He was from New York, and had a wonderful animation to his personality...it was always a joy to hear his take on things. Anyway, he used to say that everyone he knew in religious life was gay (an exaggeration, but understood as hyperbole in context), and he made a interesting point as to why:

What else is the introspective, humble, penitent homosexual to do?

Their very nature runs against the teachings of the Church. Joining a monastery provides an alternative to marriage or life-long bachelorhood. Friars take a vow of chastity, and are surrounded by others who can empathize with and support them. Perhaps it seems more plausible to suppress your own (natural/abhorrent/whatever) sexual urges when you are surrounded by others suppressing theirs. If you are a homosexual who loves God and you wish to live a Christian life as honestly as you can there are relatively few options, most of which require you to suppress your sexual identity anyway. The Church, with it's independence, ubiquity, and secrecy, is probably a better place than most to do so.

If we cannot let someone be themselves openly we cannot be surprised when they find somewhere to do so secretly...I think that has real repercussions when we're talking about how people perceive their eternal spiritual prospects.

EDIT TO ADD:

I only point this out because we don't know what kind of "issues" with these priests the Pope was actually aware of. It was probably no secret that the man was gay and kept colorful company...but the cocaine and the orgies? I think most people would make an effort to keep the details of that behavior from your bosses. Especially when one of those bosses is the Pope. Still...it looks bad because it is bad. We expect better behavior from our Clergy, and I think rightfully so.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

If we cannot let someone be themselves openly we cannot be surprised when they find somewhere to do so secretly...I think that has real repercussions when we're talking about how people perceive their eternal spiritual prospects.

It all comes down to this doesn't it? If you're a Christian, you realize being yourself means you're a fallen, sin-ridden, dead man, in rebellion to God. We all have our proverbial crosses to bear. If you're still living your sinful desires in secret, it's an indication you may still be idolizing those desires instead of God.

None of us are perfect but those that accept the calling to be leaders are to be set apart and have higher expectations placed upon them.

 

[Ziggidy]

It all comes down to this doesn't it? If you're a Christian, you realize being yourself means you're a fallen, sin-ridden, dead man, in rebellion to God. We all have our proverbial crosses to bear. If you're still living your sinful desires in secret, it's an indication you may still be idolizing those desires instead of God.

None of us are perfect but those that accept the calling to be leaders are to be set apart and have higher expectations placed upon them.

I just heard last Sunday, an excellent sermon touching on that very topic; secret sin - living a double life. The sermon was titled "Real Talk About Esther".

 

[PaulF]

It all comes down to this doesn't it? If you're a Christian, you realize being yourself means you're a fallen, sin-ridden, dead man, in rebellion to God. We all have our proverbial crosses to bear. If you're still living your sinful desires in secret, it's an indication you may still be idolizing those desires instead of God.

None of us are perfect but those that accept the calling to be leaders are to be set apart and have higher expectations placed upon them.

I absolutely agree. 100%

I'm just making the point that it isn't unreasonable that homosexuals might find aspects of Religious life more appealing than lay life, and over time it should't be unexpected to see a community of homosexuals congeal within Religious life. The funny thing about that is that it lends itself to a sort of self-feeding cycle...once the community has reached a certain size and stability it cannot help but attract the attention of gays more broadly, where religion isn't the driving force behind that attraction.

Like you said. It's a distraction from the Vocation, and a choice. We expect those we put into leadership roles to make better choices. I agree.