CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[JettaKnight]

Why wouldn't we? Name a person without struggles and I'll name a liar or insane person. We all need grace and compassion, though grace and compassion do not make wrong, right. We could certainly stand to be less mean-spirited and dismissive.

Yep. Same way you help someone dealing with alcoholism or pride or lying. Sin is sin.

Let's agree that the church could be a lot more receptive when it comes to people struggling with this.


In a whole a lot of churches, if the pastor, who's married and has three children, would say on Sunday, "I'm struggling because I'm attracted to men", he'd be looking for a new job on Monday.

 

[HoughMade]

...In a whole a lot of churches, if the pastor, who's married and has three children, would say on Sunday, "I'm struggling because I'm attracted to men", he'd be looking for a new job on Monday.

In a lot of churches, sure...and I'm not going to prejudge these hypothetical churches just yet as the standards and responsibilities of the shepherd are vastly different from the average guy.

That being said, and he's not a pastor, these were written by one of daughter's professors at Moody Bible Institute:

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-is-the-opposite-of-homosexuality

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/is-anyone-born-gay

 

[nonobaddog]

Let's agree that the church could be a lot more receptive when it comes to people struggling with this.
In a whole a lot of churches, if the pastor, who's married and has three children, would say on Sunday, "I'm struggling because I'm attracted to men", he'd be looking for a new job on Monday.

On the other hand too often they look the other way and do nothing - and then wonder what went wrong when a church leader starts f***ing boys in the a**hole.

 

[JettaKnight]

On the other hand too often they look the other way and do nothing - and then wonder what went wrong when a church leader starts f***ing boys in the a**hole.

I sincerely hope you're not trying to make a gay to pedophile connection. AFAIK, the rates for pedophilia are the same for straight and gay.

 

[Dead Duck]

I sincerely hope you're not trying to make a gay to pedophile connection. AFAIK, the rates for pedophilia are the same for straight and gay.

I'm sorry.

Are you suggesting that half of all the diddled altar boys are in fact girls?
And maybe we should at least give credit to half the diddling priests for not being gay?

 

[JettaKnight]

In a lot of churches, sure...and I'm not going to prejudge these hypothetical churches just yet as the standards and responsibilities of the shepherd are vastly different from the average guy.

True. And to be fair, a pastor saying, "I struggle with porn" would, at a minimum, see his Sunday dinner invites drop to nil, despite being in the majority (at least according to some statistics).

And, actually, there's an almost unwritten rule that a pastor doesn't express fallibility beyond humility. I dunno, I guess that's human nature... probably some leadership thing...


So, does "love the sinner, hate the sin" (a totally condescending phrase) have its limitations? Are we completely serious when we say that being tempted isn't the same as sinning? Does not being the husband of one wife and avoiding sin not enough?

And I'll be honest, if I attended a church and the pastor kept referring to Jesus as, "fabulous!" with vigorous jazz hands, I'm not so sure I'd be back the next week, even with some omniscient assurance of his fidelity to his wife.

That being said, and he's not a pastor, these were written by one of daughter's professors at Moody Bible Institute:

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/what-is-the-opposite-of-homosexuality

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/is-anyone-born-gay

I'm a big fan of his - I think you, or someone, posted a video here.

 

[JettaKnight]

I'm sorry.

Are you suggesting that half of all the diddled altar boys are in fact girls?
And maybe we should at least give credit to half the diddling priests for not being gay?

No, I'm stating that the rates of child molestation (in the general public) are the same regardless if the predator is gay or straight. Ergo, same-sex attraction is not a marker for pedophilia.

 

[2A_Tom]

need to remove the word Civil From this thread Title.

 

[JettaKnight]

need to remove the word Civil From this thread Title.

What? Really, we've had far more heated conversations in this thread - this one hardly registers.

 

[T.Lex]

Child molesters are vile human beings.

Even child molesters are not beyond God's grace.

We just had the gospel in which Jesus spent time with the people of his time who were considered the worst of sinners.

 

[Dead Duck]

need to remove the word Civil From this thread Title.

Oh you just wait until we get to the Ruler-Nuns. Oh great, now my knuckles are triggered.

 

[2A_Tom]

I broke out in a cold sweat when I opened the thread.

Bleeding knuckles and bloody noses.

 

[HoughMade]

No, I'm stating that the rates of child molestation (in the general public) are the same regardless if the predator is gay or straight. Ergo, same-sex attraction is not a marker for pedophilia.

Even within the clergy of those religions that forbid marriage (look at me going out of my way), the percentage of molesters is tiny...but well publicized.

One wonders if a higher percentage confused, abused, damaged, not interested in girls, young men trying to deal with certain urges might turn to the priesthood in hopes that it will solve all their problems...only to discover that it's not quite that simple.

 

[nonobaddog]

Even child molesters are not beyond God's grace.

Maybe so, but child molesters are beyond my grace and they should be prosecuted for their crimes.

 

[HoughMade]

Maybe so, but child molesters are beyond my grace and they should be prosecuted for their crimes.

God's Grace has little to nothing to do with what the civil authorities do regarding crimes.

 

[nonobaddog]

Even within the clergy of those religions that forbid marriage (look at me going out of my way), the percentage of molesters is tiny...but well publicized.

Don't forget about the percentage of those that cover up for the molesters, it is probably an even higher percentage.

And what percentage of molesters is acceptable to you?

 

[historian]

This has always been interesting to me, too. There are undeniable "current events" (whenever "current" happens to be in history) that influence or even form the genesis of doctrine.

I mean, most of your weekly practice is a direct result of the Reformation. The mass, the confessional, and a ton of other things are part of Tridentine Council (a.k.a. why J.K. is a heretic). I mean, most of the Mary stuff comes from the "spiritualists" who were running around in the pre-reformation RCC and the need for the church to co-opt them into the formal church rather than brand them as heretics.

 

[JettaKnight]

What? Really, we've had far more heated conversations in this thread - this one hardly registers.

*sigh*

 

[nonobaddog]

God's Grace has little to nothing to do with what the civil authorities do regarding crimes.

God's grace has little to nothing to do with the damage they are causing right now too.

 

[nonobaddog]

*sigh*

That almost looks like bernie - practicing how to spin things.