CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[Mark 1911]

If you were not doubtful, you would not need faith! Being doubtful encourages faith.

Ever hear of a book called Radio Replies, the following is an interesting comment on "doubt" from that book...

Highly intellectual men do accept the doctrines of Christianity as certain. Being highly intellectual, they have not done so without profound investigation of the reasonable grounds for their position. And knowing that such men are convinced, it is not highly intellectual conduct to reject as legends and fairy tales the doctrines they accept, without making a similar investigation.

 

[2A_Tom]

The matrix stuff was a joke. An extension of the there is no spoon statement. I do not think that you are trapped.

I was brought up in a church. I left church when I went in the Army at 17 and was Saved when I was 21 still in the Army.

To your question.

Why? I believe in the in the actual bodily birth, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe in the Father (YHWH) SON (Yeshua) and the Holy Ghost (Pneumos).

The Bible is the basis for this. Jesus was not a good man. The Bible is the living word of GOD.

Why? Faith.

 

[JettaKnight]

The matrix stuff was a joke. An extension of the there is no spoon statement. I do not think that you are trapped.

Gotcha... sorry if I seem tense... the secretary has decided that everyone in the office should listen to her music.

To your question.

Why? I believe in the in the actual bodily birth, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe in the Father (YHWH) SON (Yeshua) and the Holy Ghost (Pneumos).

The Bible is the basis for this. Jesus was not [just] a good man. The Bible is the living word of GOD.

I would agree that is a good, succinct statement of faith.

Why? Faith.

To me, that sounds funny - "I believe what I believe, because I believe it."



For me, there's clear evidence to Jesus' being and death, and even his resurrection, then you add in miracles, fulfillment of prophecy, the actions of his disciples, the internal cohesion of the Bible as a collection of books, philosophical reasoning that a god is necessary (but which one(s)?), the power of the story of the creation, fall, and redemption of man...


In other words, there's reasons why I believe.

always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect

Of course, I'd be lying to myself if I didn't accept that a significant reason is because I was raised in the church. But that's forced me to re-examine the evidence.

 

[2A_Tom]

How could a person believe in Jesus being the son of God?

 

[NKBJ]

How could a person believe in Jesus being the son of God?

That's the easy part. Believing that God is what He says He is, that's not so easy for a lot of people.

 

[2A_Tom]

WHO? Where does HE say IT?

 

[NKBJ]

Scripture.

 

[2A_Tom]

Kind of my point. How can a person have faith in Jesus as their Saviour and not have faith in the preservation of scripture.

People used to say "God said it, I believe it, that's good enough for me."

Well, I simplify it a bit. God said it!

 

[NKBJ]

Just thought you were asking a question.

 

[BugI02]

OK, how do you get out of the Matrix? How do you know which world is real and which is a dream?



I guess I don't follow... The "red pill" was just the beginning - there was evidence presented to Neo immediately afterwards.


You're starting to sound very "flat Earth" - everything around you fake, evidence is planted, you can't believe anything except what you have faith in.

I'm sorry, Jetta! I have led you astray

The full Matrix quote is "Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, only realize the truth... THERE IS NO SPOON. Then you will see that it not the spoon that bends, it is yourself."

In the macro, I was referring to the Word shaping us, not the other way round

In the micro, it was meant as a backhanded reference to how you sometimes seem to be arguing both sides of the street lately - a reference to the gyrations you seem to undergo in order to correctly place yourself to argue some of the positions you do.

No confessions necessary, that's T.Lex's/foszoe's wheelhouse

Mea Culpa

 

[JettaKnight]

In the micro, it was meant as a backhanded reference to how you sometimes seem to be arguing both sides of the street lately - a reference to the gyrations you seem to undergo in order to correctly place yourself to argue some of the positions you do.

I'm a big fan of Schrödinger and Heisenberg.

Kind of my point. How can a person have faith in Jesus as their Saviour and not have faith in the preservation of scripture.

I guess my point is, "How do I know God said it? How do I know that the Bible is what God said, and not the Quran? How do I know that Jesus didn't appear in the Americas?"


"Knowing the Truth" or "Knowing God" or variations thereof - there's a ton of them out there. Why? Because knowing matters. Someone doubting or seeking truth should not be discounted as having a lack of faith.

Yeah, I'm playing Devil's Advocate a bit, but this is where people are - the people that show up at Ravi Zacharias talks, the people that wonder up to a proxe station on a college campus between classes, the people that only darken the doors of a church on Xmas and Easter, the JeepHammers on INGO. These are people that ascribe next to zero credibility to the Bible.

I don't think the simple answer of, "God says so." gets the job done; especially in the up-and-coming post-Christian America.



Now, once you are a Christian, then by all means, you better be giving full authority to Scripture!

People used to say "God said it, I believe it, [that settles it]."

Side note:
Every so often that bumper sticker quote gets mentioned from our pulpit. Our pastor, in his over-analyst mode, comment on it, "That's wrong, It should read, 'God said, that settles it.' It doesn't matter what you believe. God is who He is, and things are the way He say they are to be."

 

[BugI02]

I'm a big fan of Schrödinger and Heisenberg.

[Yeah, I thought about superposition]

I guess my point is, "How do I know God said it? How do I know that the Bible is what God said, and not the Quran? How do I know that Jesus didn't appear in the Americas?"


"Knowing the Truth" or "Knowing God" or variations thereof - there's a ton of them out there. Why? Because knowing matters. Someone doubting or seeking truth should not be discounted as having a lack of faith.

[Personally, I doubt you'll be able to touch the stigmata when next we see Him]

All I've got is my own testimony. I've walked this path and have come to see that it is impossible to find THE truth, that's a blind alley. I believe we should instead seek only enough truth. Faith, whether in a scientific theory or in the Lord, is always going to be beyond what you currently know

"You have to turn in sometime"

 

[historian]

I believe and I'm still not making it to heaven. Belief is ain't nothing but a thing.

 

[Dead Duck]

I believe and I'm still not making it to heaven. Belief is ain't nothing but a thing.

Move to Colorado. If you're not going there when you die, at least you can be closer while you're living.

 

[NKBJ]

Living in Utah and running around the Uintas, crawling out of the tent in morning by the beaver pond and scaring something weighing more than the two of us put together... awesome places to disappear. There was a valley we liked to go camp in that the only other person we ever saw was at the bottom end, a guy in his wagon with his dog tending the flocks. Packing on up towards to high end there was a series of silted up beaver ponds with the highest being old enough that it was a meadow with saplings encroaching towards the center. One day we walked into center and a bull and cow moose were there. We kinda eased on back into the trees and took a different route!

Wasn't but a year later I was living in Houston and discovered a group of unacquainted individuals who (each being drawn to a single astonished hypnotist) began receiving information from a remote time before what academia recognizes as history. But that as they say is another story and besides, it was decidedly not Christian.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

 

[Dead Duck]

WOW!
Again people misspelling "Easter Worshipers".

 

[GREEN607]

I believe and I'm still not making it to heaven. Belief is ain't nothing but a thing.

Not sure what you mean by "I'm still not making it to Heaven."

But let me, for a couple of minutes, discuss 'belief' and 'faith'. Believing God exists as the Creator, and believing in Jesus Christ, as God's only begotten son and our Savior..... is simply not enough. Maybe that's what you meant (and maybe not). After all, even the Devil himself, believes in God and in Jesus. The Devil tried to tempt Jesus in the wilderness (unsuccessfully, of course), as he knew that Christ Jesus was/is God's son, and was sent to save mankind. God loves us, and only wants good things for us. He knows that the Devil only wants to bring us pain and despair and suffering.

What it takes, beyond belief, is faith. By that, I mean having faith (believing) that God is your Heavenly Father. It also means recognizing that God sent Christ Jesus to Earth.... to teach us and be an example for us.... and to eventually be sacrificed on the cross. The purpose of the sacrifice, was for Jesus' blood to be spilled upon the Earth. It meant that the holy blood of Jesus was forever here, to wash us clean of sin...... if we repent of those sins, and accept Christ Jesus as our Savior. The Bible tells us that God loved the Son, and delivered all things into His hands. This is why Christians utter their prayers to God "in the name of Jesus".

Further, once you establish your faith, you are required to act upon your faith..... by trying to live your daily life, as God would want you to do. Jesus' new Commandment is "That ye love one another, even as I have loved you." This not only means that we should approach each other in a civil manner, but that we also are commanded to forgive one another.

The Bible clearly tells us that more than once, Jesus stated (about helping others), "Even as you have done unto these, you have done unto me." That works both ways. In other words, charity and kindness and forgiveness shown to others, is received by Jesus as well. Finding fault, and hating, and divisiveness toward others...... is also seen/felt by Jesus, and displeases Him.

Where the Bible states God gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall have everlasting life..... it means that if you believe Christ Jesus is God's son and our Savior..... you must then conduct yourself in a manner reflective of Christ's example, to enter into the kingdom of Heaven and live forever in Paradise.

 

[NKBJ]

It's an illustration that what Jesus says is correct. But we knew that.

 

[ArcadiaGP]