CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[Bartman]

80 years out of the 200,000 science tells us that humans have been on the Earth.
80 years out of the 4.5 billion years the Earth has been around.
80 years out of the 13+ billion years that the universe has existed.

Seems to me that thinking that 80 short years has any meaning within the context of that time frame is somewhere between hubris and a comfortable delusion.

"A true opium of the people is a belief in nothingness after death - the huge solace of thinking that our betrayals, greed, cowardice, murders are not going to be judged... but all religions recognize that our deeds are imperishable." Czeslaw Milosz

If not... Ultimately, what's the damn point?

 

[2A_Tom]

80 years out of the 200,000 science tells us that humans have been on the Earth.
80 years out of the 4.5 billion years the Earth has been around.
80 years out of the 13+ billion years that the universe has existed.

Seems to me that thinking that 80 short years has any meaning within the context of that time frame is somewhere between hubris and a comfortable delusion.

"A true opium of the people is a belief in nothingness after death - the huge solace of thinking that our betrayals, greed, cowardice, murders are not going to be judged... but all religions recognize that our deeds are imperishable." Czeslaw Milosz

If not... Ultimately, what's the damn point?

And, in your opinion this is civil discussion of Christianity.

What would constitute civil discussion of YO MAMA?

 

[NKBJ]

What's the point?
To make the grade.
That's why we're here.

It's like a refinery. There's process design and controls. Some of the constituent elements come through, some get converted, some get burned off, some make it into the desired final product and some don't.

 

[BugI02]

Empty promises from a false god...some choice, lol.

Life ends in the grave. If religious belief adds to your life...great, enjoy that. It sure looks like it has done the opposite for our fellow INGOer (and my IRL friend). Your fictions aren't helping here - in fact, they're the very cause of the problem - but there are other options.

Hey, Paul

Maybe you should still your mind sometime and sincerely ask Jesus to open your eyes

Since you're so convinced there is no one on the other end of the line, what have you got to lose?

 

[2A_Tom]

I told another member that suffers from migraines that I would pray for him.

One of our ashiest friends quickly posted that he would trust in modern science and botox.

[video=youtube;oqUUW44lr2k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqUUW44lr2k[/video]

 

[BugI02]

80 years out of the 200,000 science tells us that humans have been on the Earth.
80 years out of the 4.5 billion years the Earth has been around.
80 years out of the 13+ billion years that the universe has existed.

Seems to me that thinking that 80 short years has any meaning within the context of that time frame is somewhere between hubris and a comfortable delusion.

"A true opium of the people is a belief in nothingness after death - the huge solace of thinking that our betrayals, greed, cowardice, murders are not going to be judged... but all religions recognize that our deeds are imperishable." Czeslaw Milosz

If not... Ultimately, what's the damn point?

Yessss. Newton, Descartes, Euler, Maxwell, Bohr, Einstein

Some lived 80, give or take. Some a lot less

What difference can one man's life mean to the world

 

[2A_Tom]

Just a suggestion, PaulF could start a new thread.

CIVIL IRRELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: ALL THINGS ATHEISM

I promise I will not come over and attempt to convert you or point out that God calls atheism foolishness.

Psalms 14:1 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
Thefoolhathsaid in hisheart, There is no God...

God often repeats himself, in case we do not get it the first time.

Psalms 53:1 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
Thefoolhathsaid in hisheart, There is no God...

 

[rvb]

well, in fairness, PaulF did start THIS thread.....

-rvb

 

[2A_Tom]

Yes he did. I just returned the favor.

[h=1]CIVIL IRRELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Atheist and Secular.[/h]

 

[rvb]

historian,
I don't know if you want to go into WHY you think you are beyond saving.... if not, just ignore this...
you have claimed to believe. Do you believe Jesus is the son of God, who died and rose again? PaulF attests to the quality of life you have lead. What more do you think is required?

Is it because you don't feel worthy to receive His grace? well that's ok, none of us are! that's what grace is!
Is it because you still struggle with sin? that's ok too, there is no perfect Christian, only the perfect Christ.
Is it a particular theology or description of God? Study of the Word can help bring you closer to God.

hope in some miniscule way this helps

-rvb

 

[historian]

historian,
I don't know if you want to go into WHY you think you are beyond saving.... if not, just ignore this...
you have claimed to believe. Do you believe Jesus is the son of God, who died and rose again? PaulF attests to the quality of life you have lead. What more do you think is required?

Is it because you don't feel worthy to receive His grace? well that's ok, none of us are! that's what grace is!
Is it because you still struggle with sin? that's ok too, there is no perfect Christian, only the perfect Christ.
Is it a particular theology or description of God? Study of the Word can help bring you closer to God.

hope in some miniscule way this helps

-rvb

Thanks RVB. I appreciate it. Like I said earlier, there is a difference between belief and salvation. I'm certainly not an atheist, there is a God, he chooses whom he chooses for redemption. The rest of us don't get the option. Basically, the only thing that keeps me good is common grace. I look at cause and effect to keep me from doing bad, not because God doesn't want me to. I'm tired and weary of fighting sin, not a specific sin, all sin, only with my own power. I've asked God for help, God chooses not to help me. I don't believe that God has chosen to save me. My life makes more sense that way.

It is similar to me finding out that I'm an introvert. I didn't believe I was (and if you met me, you would think the same), but when I figured it out, things made sense.

 

[historian]

Oh, and 2A Tom et al. Lay off of PaulF. He is a great guy (who took a really fun roadtrip with me!). Back off. He is more agnostic than an athiest (although he doesn't like to think so ).

 

[historian]

You don't require saving. There is no spiritual plane. There is no life after death. There are no ghosts or goblins, ghouls or gods. You have lived, and continue to this day to live, an honorable and productive life...the life of a genuinely good man. Please don't let whatever your current circumstances are fool you into thinking otherwise. I know you better than that, even if you can't see it now.

We get 80 years, give or take. We can use that time to do good things, or bad things...or no things. I have met you in real life. You do good things.

I don't believe in a god that would punish you of all people with eternal damnation...on balance that seems absurd to me. Where is the justice? Where is the love? Ultimately...what's the damned point?

Keep your head up.

Thanks Paul. The thing is that God doesn't care about good or bad. We can't do enough good to counteract the bad. Justice has been fulfilled for the elect.

Thanks again for the encouragement though and I really hope that God gets you one of these days!

 

[rvb]

Thanks RVB. I appreciate it. Like I said earlier, there is a difference between belief and salvation. I'm certainly not an atheist, there is a God, he chooses whom he chooses for redemption. The rest of us don't get the option. Basically, the only thing that keeps me good is common grace. I look at cause and effect to keep me from doing bad, not because God doesn't want me to. I'm tired and weary of fighting sin, not a specific sin, all sin, only with my own power. I've asked God for help, God chooses not to help me. I don't believe that God has chosen to save me. My life makes more sense that way.

It is similar to me finding out that I'm an introvert. I didn't believe I was (and if you met me, you would think the same), but when I figured it out, things made sense.

I was trying to find a certain reference I had in mind regarding hope when I came across this.

I read it, then I repeated it to God as a prayer for you. I'll leave it at that.....

May the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. 1 Peter 5:10

 

[Bartman]

Given some of the responses to the post I made, it looks like I didnÂ’t make myself as clear as I should have. My post wasnÂ’t meant to argue for the materialistic/Darwinist worldview, but to illustrate how futile it ultimately is. Extreme examples of that viewpoint state that consciousness itself is an illusion.

My comments were made in part as a reply to those who post in this thread who vocally state that Christians are simply chasing “snarks and grumpkins.”

What drew me back to faith, and Christianity in particular, is the realization that is the only worldview, to my way of thinking, that provides any meaning or purpose to life.

If one adopts the belief that the materialistic world is all that exists then what? Do good things with your 80 years, do bad things, does is matter? How about in a hundred years? How about a thousand? Maybe you do “great” things and you advance human learning and civilization. Huzzah!

The human race has an expiration date as surely as individual humans do. What meaning will your life, or mine, or EinsteinÂ’s have when our aging sun renders the Earth incapable of supporting life? The scientific view of the world offers all of us a zero sum game. ItÂ’s just a matter of time.

The Bible offers a different future, where humans, the Earth, and the universe itself will go on as the perfect creations that they were meant to be.

To believe otherwise is to choose destruction, not just according to Christianity, but according to your own philosophical framework. It just a matter of time.

tl;dr - Atheism is nihilism if viewed on a large enough time scale.

 

[JettaKnight]

Yessss. Newton, Descartes, Euler, Maxwell, Bohr, Einstein

Some lived 80, give or take. Some a lot less

What difference can one man's life mean to the world

[video=youtube;5LB9vK6bG6A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LB9vK6bG6A[/video]

 

[rvb]

Like I said earlier, there is a difference between belief and salvation.

[STRIKE]That's not a theology I agree with. [/STRIKE] Rephrase... Salvation comes from God's grace. To accept that grace, all that's required is faith/belief.
John 3:16 is among the most popular verses in the Bible, but I like John 3:14-15 and John 3:18
"as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life"
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

There can be debate about obtaining that belief/faith.... is it human free will? does He know ahead of time who chooses to believe? does He decide who believes? But if that is distracting from your faith, I'd ask does it matter how we came to believe? Belief is all that's required to receive God's grace and salvation.

imo...

-rvb

 

[churchmouse]

And, in your opinion this is civil discussion of Christianity.

What would constitute civil discussion of YO MAMA?

So you think this is a civil response to a post you do not find civil....???

Lets all take a deep breath, short break and resume when we can adult.
If not stay out of this thread. Period. No further warnings will be given.

This apply's across the board.

 

[ATM]

...He is more agnostic than an athiest (although he doesn't like to think so ).

Two understatements in one sentence, bravo.

 

[BugI02]

Thanks Paul. The thing is that God doesn't care about good or bad. We can't do enough good to counteract the bad. Justice has been fulfilled for the elect.

Thanks again for the encouragement though and I really hope that God gets you one of these days!

So do I!

For the nonce, I'd be happy to convince him that I don't want him to join my 'cult'. It's more akin to intervening to dissuade someone from smoking or excessive drinking, just focused more on the next life

I must confess to increasing curiosity about your situation when you mention it. I hope you find your way out of that box