CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[historian]

BS. They already are wiped out. ISIS pretty much finished cleaning them out in Iraq/Syria.

 

[T.Lex]

The largest geographic area of persecutions is China, but let's talk about the middle east....

 

[historian]

Not sure what you mean by "I'm still not making it to Heaven."

But let me, for a couple of minutes, discuss 'belief' and 'faith'. Believing God exists as the Creator, and believing in Jesus Christ, as God's only begotten son and our Savior..... is simply not enough. Maybe that's what you meant (and maybe not). After all, even the Devil himself, believes in God and in Jesus. The Devil tried to tempt Jesus in the wilderness (unsuccessfully, of course), as he knew that Christ Jesus was/is God's son, and was sent to save mankind. God loves us, and only wants good things for us. He knows that the Devil only wants to bring us pain and despair and suffering.

What it takes, beyond belief, is faith. By that, I mean having faith (believing) that God is your Heavenly Father. It also means recognizing that God sent Christ Jesus to Earth.... to teach us and be an example for us.... and to eventually be sacrificed on the cross. The purpose of the sacrifice, was for Jesus' blood to be spilled upon the Earth. It meant that the holy blood of Jesus was forever here, to wash us clean of sin...... if we repent of those sins, and accept Christ Jesus as our Savior. The Bible tells us that God loved the Son, and delivered all things into His hands. This is why Christians utter their prayers to God "in the name of Jesus".

Further, once you establish your faith, you are required to act upon your faith..... by trying to live your daily life, as God would want you to do. Jesus' new Commandment is "That ye love one another, even as I have loved you." This not only means that we should approach each other in a civil manner, but that we also are commanded to forgive one another.

The Bible clearly tells us that more than once, Jesus stated (about helping others), "Even as you have done unto these, you have done unto me." That works both ways. In other words, charity and kindness and forgiveness shown to others, is received by Jesus as well. Finding fault, and hating, and divisiveness toward others...... is also seen/felt by Jesus, and displeases Him.

Where the Bible states God gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall have everlasting life..... it means that if you believe Christ Jesus is God's son and our Savior..... you must then conduct yourself in a manner reflective of Christ's example, to enter into the kingdom of Heaven and live forever in Paradise.

That's nice. You can't base your entire view of the gospel on John 3:16.

I don't have faith. There isn't a reason for me to because I wasn't chosen by God to have faith. I haven't been picked for regeneration and therefore don't have any hope of a future in heaven. It somewhat stinks for me, but I don't have a choice.

 

[T.Lex]

That's nice. You can't base your entire view of the gospel on John 3:16.

I don't have faith. There isn't a reason for me to because I wasn't chosen by God to have faith. I haven't been picked for regeneration and therefore don't have any hope of a future in heaven. It somewhat stinks for me, but I don't have a choice.

Just for the record, there are several (many?) of us disagree with your own assessment of your future.

 

[JettaKnight]

Just for the record, [STRIKE]there are several (many?)[/STRIKE]most of us disagree with your own assessment of your future.

.

 

[2A_Tom]

I cannot dispute his faith in his future only his reasoning.

 

[historian]

.

I find it somewhat humorous that I, the reluctant Calvinist, have unfortunately found my undoing in it.

 

[2A_Tom]

Arminianism and Calvinism are diametrically opposed and they are both non Biblical.

 

[historian]

Arminianism and Calvinism are diametrically opposed and they are both non Biblical.

Well, Arminianism sure. Calvinism is very Biblical. Shows up everywhere and in everything. Heck, even the Angels announcing Christ's birth are espousing it.

 

[NKBJ]

I had to look up Arminianism.

What's so hard about God's sovereignty and mankind's free will?
You (we collectively) decide what you are going to do except when He stops it.
He is either fair or not. But oh, by who's standards? His.

 

[afcolt]

The 2nd London Baptist Confession, Chapter 3, provides a very helpful statement on God’s Decrees. And yes, Biblical Doctrine (Calvinism) teaches God’s Sovereignty and Man’s Responsibility. Man is free, but freely a slave to sin until he is regenerated (given a new heart), then he freely comes to God. But it is God who ordains, choose, and works—even our faith is a gift, not of our works, that none may boast (Ephesians 2:8-10):


Chapter 3: Of God's Decree

1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree. ( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )

2. Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions. ( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )

3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice. ( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

4. These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished. ( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )

5. Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto. ( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12 )

6. As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so he hath, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto; wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ, by his Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by his power through faith unto salvation; neither are any other redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only. ( 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 10; Romans 8:30; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:5; John 10:26; John 17:9; John 6:64 )

7. The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election; so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel. ( 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 5; 2 Peter 1:10; Ephesians 1:6; Romans 11:33; Romans 11:5, 6, 20; Luke 10:20 )


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[afcolt]

That's nice. You can't base your entire view of the gospel on John 3:16.

I don't have faith. There isn't a reason for me to because I wasn't chosen by God to have faith. I haven't been picked for regeneration and therefore don't have any hope of a future in heaven. It somewhat stinks for me, but I don't have a choice.

Well, none of us know the secret will of God. We have to distinguish between the secret will of God (all things that He has ordained to come to pass) and the revealed will of God (how God would have us live from His Word.

And God’s revealed will is to repent and believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved. We won’t know who the elect are in this life—there’s no flashing bulb above their heads—so we preach the gospel to all men, knowing Christ will raise all who are drawn to Him by the Father on the Last Day (John 6).

Deu 29:29**The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.


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[2A_Tom]

Each one has enough truth to fool someone.

 

[historian]

Yup. Both of you make my point quite well.

 

[JettaKnight]

Yup. Both of you make my point quite well.

I want to answer you, but you know everything I would say.

Nevertheless, you are always in my prayers that you'll realize that you are chosen.

 

[historian]

I want to answer you, but you know everything I would say.

Nevertheless, you are always in my prayers that you'll realize that you are chosen.

I appreciate the thoughts, but objectively looking back at my life it makes quite a bit more sense if I view myself as unsaved. Things happen for reasons and then when this realization hit me, things snapped into focus.

 

[PaulF]

I appreciate the thoughts, but objectively looking back at my life it makes quite a bit more sense if I view myself as unsaved. Things happen for reasons and then when this realization hit me, things snapped into focus.

You don't require saving. There is no spiritual plane. There is no life after death. There are no ghosts or goblins, ghouls or gods. You have lived, and continue to this day to live, an honorable and productive life...the life of a genuinely good man. Please don't let whatever your current circumstances are fool you into thinking otherwise. I know you better than that, even if you can't see it now.

We get 80 years, give or take. We can use that time to do good things, or bad things...or no things. I have met you in real life. You do good things.

I don't believe in a god that would punish you of all people with eternal damnation...on balance that seems absurd to me. Where is the justice? Where is the love? Ultimately...what's the damned point?

Keep your head up.

 

[2A_Tom]

The Damned point is that those that reject the free gift (redundant) of love and eternal life from God choose their own fate.

 

[PaulF]

The Damned point is that those that reject the free gift (redundant) of love and eternal life from God choose their own fate.

Empty promises from a false god...some choice, lol.

Life ends in the grave. If religious belief adds to your life...great, enjoy that. It sure looks like it has done the opposite for our fellow INGOer (and my IRL friend). Your fictions aren't helping here - in fact, they're the very cause of the problem - but there are other options.

 

[2A_Tom]

Wow that is so absolute.