CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[2A_Tom]

Foszoe, I do understand that you enjoy the research and the history.

I believe that that has nothing to do with your Faith.

 

[NKBJ]

You don't seem to know much about faith.

Oh my. What should be the response to such as that?

 

[historian]

Happy Easter to the scientifically challenged among us!

 

[foszoe]

Happy Easter to the scientifically challenged among us!

Christ is Risen!

 

[foszoe]

Foszoe, I do understand that you enjoy the research and the history.

I believe that that has nothing to do with your Faith.

I love you.

Christ is Risen is a historical statement. As are Paul's missionary journeys and the entire bible, in a broad sense.

I honestly can't conceive of my faith without history.

Faith simply makes the history efficacious for me!

And you, and every other believer whether one knowsthe history not.h

In Christ
Foszoe

 

[foszoe]

As we're leaving the church edifice, I remarked to my wife, we are the only who could get arrested for closing the bar after service. As we left the parking lot, it was 2:30 a.m.

It was an interesting Lent. I felt like one who came at the 11th hour and perhaps feel the most renewed I have in the last few Lenten periods. By that I am referring to St John's homily for Pascha.

 

[foszoe]

St John Chrysostom Paschal Homily

Read every year as the sermon on Easter. I should use this homily against those who say Orthodoxy is works based

If anyone is devout and a lover of God, let them enjoy this beautiful and radiant festival.
If anyone is a grateful servant, let them, rejoicing, enter into the joy of his Lord.
If anyone has wearied themselves in fasting, let them now receive recompense.
If anyone has labored from the first hour, let them today receive the just reward.
If anyone has come at the third hour, with thanksgiving let them feast.
If anyone has arrived at the sixth hour, let them have no misgivings; for they shall suffer no loss.
If anyone has delayed until the ninth hour, let them draw near without hesitation.
If anyone has arrived even at the eleventh hour, let them not fear on account of tardiness.
For the Master is gracious and receives the last even as the first; He gives rest to him that comes at the eleventh hour, just as to him who has labored from the first.
He has mercy upon the last and cares for the first; to the one He gives, and to the other He is gracious.
He both honors the work and praises the intention.
Enter all of you, therefore, into the joy of our Lord, and, whether first or last, receive your reward.
O rich and poor, one with another, dance for joy!
O you ascetics and you negligent, celebrate the day!
You that have fasted and you that have disregarded the fast, rejoice today!
The table is rich-laden: feast royally, all of you!
The calf is fatted: let no one go forth hungry!
Let all partake of the feast of faith. Let all receive the riches of goodness.
Let no one lament their poverty, for the universal kingdom has been revealed.
Let no one mourn their transgressions, for pardon has dawned from the grave.
Let no one fear death, for the Saviour's death has set us free.
He that was taken by death has annihilated it!
He descended into Hades and took Hades captive!
He embittered it when it tasted His flesh! And anticipating this, Isaiah exclaimed: "Hades was embittered when it encountered Thee in the lower regions".
It was embittered, for it was abolished!
It was embittered, for it was mocked!
It was embittered, for it was purged!
It was embittered, for it was despoiled!
It was embittered, for it was bound in chains!
It took a body and came upon God!
It took earth and encountered Ηeaven!
It took what it saw, but crumbled before what it had not seen!
O death, where is thy sting?
O Hades, where is thy victory?
Christ is risen, and you are overthrown!
Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen!
Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice!
Christ is risen, and life reigns!
Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in a tomb!
For Christ, being raised from the dead, has become the First-fruits of them that have slept.
To Him be glory and might unto the ages of ages.
Amen.

 

[JettaKnight]

Christ is Risen!

That was soooooo last week.

 

[2A_Tom]

Foszoe, my understanding is enriched by history Biblical as well as extra-biblical.

However, my faith is totally Biblically based.

My first reaction to folks that attempt to or seem discount historical accounts, either Biblical or secular, is that their intent is to undermine the faith of others.

ETA or prove to others that their lack of faith is justified.

 

[T.Lex]

Yeah, it's almost as changeable as knowledge.

Perhaps related, new research indicates that the "constant" of the speed of light might not actually be constant.

The more knowledge we publish, the more it changes previous knowledge.

It is almost like certain scientific disciplines take things on faith....

 

[JettaKnight]

Foszoe, my understanding is enriched by history Biblical as well as extra-biblical.

However, my faith is totally Biblically based.

My first reaction to folks that attempt to or seem discount historical accounts, either Biblical or secular, is that their intent is to undermine the faith of others.

ETA or prove to others that their lack of faith is justified.

Or we seek confirmation bias - "See, this letter proves Jesus...".

Which is all well and good, so long as you're willing to look at all the evidence, both supporting and not, and carefully consider the validity of each piece of evidence.

 

[2A_Tom]

Evidence is not necessary. If you need confirmation that is not faith.

Hebrews 11:1 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith IS my evidence.

ETA 338 instances in the Bible what more evidence does one need.https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/search.php?hs=1&q=faith

 

[BugI02]

Or we seek confirmation bias - "See, this letter proves Jesus...".

Which is all well and good, so long as you're willing to look at all the evidence, both supporting and not, and carefully consider the validity of each piece of evidence.

Jetta

"... There is no spoon."

 

[JettaKnight]

Evidence is not necessary. If you need confirmation that is not faith.

Faith without some evidence or support is blind faith - which isn't really a good thing. That's the stuff of conspiracy theories.

There's plenty of instances where God provides a sign - a bit of evidence, if you will.

Faith IS my evidence.

ETA 338 instances in the Bible what more evidence does one need?

That seems to be some circular reasoning. So, because the word faith (or variants like faithful) are found in an old English translation, we shouldn't stop to logically, philosophically, ethically, etc., etc., consider if it's true?

Ponder this - how many times is faith mentioned in the Quran?



If I'm talking to an agnostic, what answer do I give to, "Why do you believe what you believe?"

There has to be some external evidence in conjunction with internal evidence for the Bible.

 

[2A_Tom]

But if all of your senses say there is a spoon and your brain accepts the input what is the difference.

You are warm, comfortable, nourished and producing electricity, so...

 

[JettaKnight]

But if all of your senses say there is a spoon and your brain accepts the input what is the difference.

You are warm, comfortable, nourished and producing electricity, so...

OK, how do you get out of the Matrix? How do you know which world is real and which is a dream?



I guess I don't follow... The "red pill" was just the beginning - there was evidence presented to Neo immediately afterwards.


You're starting to sound very "flat Earth" - everything around you fake, evidence is planted, you can't believe anything except what you have faith in.

 

[2A_Tom]

I am also a 6 day creationist and 6000 year old earth.

Matthew 15:14 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

There are ditches everywhere. Many scientists, faithless and religious leaders are blind leaders.

 

[T.Lex]

Jesus had a skeptic as an Apostle. Sometimes, he was even quite cynical about it.

Seems to me that a skepticism about matters of faith isn't a bad thing. One can doubt, and still be faithful.

 

[JettaKnight]

I am also a 6 day creationist and 6000 year old earth.

Let's leave that out of this, right now.

There are ditches everywhere. Many scientists, faithless and religious leaders are blind leaders.

I gather that you were brought up in the faith, correct?

So, it could be quite conceivable for someone who was brought up in the faith, like you, but then left, to point at you and say, "You, BF, are the one trapped in the Matrix! I am free!"

Does that make sense?



So, I pose the question to you, out of utmost sincerity and fostering discussion, "Why do you believe the Bible is the inerrant and authoritative word of the one who created the universe?"

 

[Ziggidy]

Jesus had a skeptic as an Apostle. Sometimes, he was even quite cynical about it.

Seems to me that a skepticism about matters of faith isn't a bad thing. One can doubt, and still be faithful.

If you were not doubtful, you would not need faith! Being doubtful encourages faith.