CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[Dead Duck]

[video=youtube;R_bkNkrWdz8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_bkNkrWdz8[/video]

That is Hilarious!

.......and I could see that happening today.

 

[Ziggidy]

It's interesting, this thread and how it is manipulated to create a never ending debate. Is there more than one Holy Spirit? Do you need the Holy Spirit for salvation? DO you agree you must do what Jesus says to do? Can God create a rock too so big He cannot pick it up?

All I wanted to know if we shared a common Hope, a simple question; which is very often answered with another question with a slight deviation off topic. It would appear to me that some want to steer away from some questions.

Is the Holy Spirit needed for salvation? Not that I am aware of. I cannot recall ever seeing that He is necessary but rather as a counselor, teacher, guide. One who will help us maintain the righteous path. One who will help us have a deeper understanding of God and His love for us.

Why are some individuals afraid to say if in fact we share in a common foundation of Jesus Christ? I personally do not like much of the stuff other christian churches put out there, doctrines, traditions, rules, requirements and such. But remove those and what is left? It's all about Jesus Christ. Christ saves, period. The church, in many ways (not all) stand-in the way of the individual and Christ. Nothing, nobody, no thing should ever stand between Christ and us. That is the foundation. We have Hope in Christ alone.

 

[Ziggidy]

As a side note, I am not sure if some churches would not agree fully that we share common hope, that no person or thing stands between Christ and that our salvation comes from Christ alone. The problem with many agreeing with that is that they would lose a control factor; lose dependency on the organized church.

Christ spoke out against much of the tradition / law in His day. IMO, we experience that in many ways today.

 

[foszoe]

Better real confusion than false clarity.

If it makes you feel any better, my questioning attitude goes well beyond the subject matter of this thread and is equally annoying on numerous topics.

It's also mostly responsible for my being Orthodox.

It's interesting, this thread and how it is manipulated to create a never ending debate. Is there more than one Holy Spirit? Do you need the Holy Spirit for salvation? DO you agree you must do what Jesus says to do? Can God create a rock too so big He cannot pick it up?

All I wanted to know if we shared a common Hope, a simple question; which is very often answered with another question with a slight deviation off topic. It would appear to me that some want to steer away from some questions.

Is the Holy Spirit needed for salvation? Not that I am aware of. I cannot recall ever seeing that He is necessary but rather as a counselor, teacher, guide. One who will help us maintain the righteous path. One who will help us have a deeper understanding of God and His love for us.

Why are some individuals afraid to say if in fact we share in a common foundation of Jesus Christ? I personally do not like much of the stuff other christian churches put out there, doctrines, traditions, rules, requirements and such. But remove those and what is left? It's all about Jesus Christ. Christ saves, period. The church, in many ways (not all) stand-in the way of the individual and Christ. Nothing, nobody, no thing should ever stand between Christ and us. That is the foundation. We have Hope in Christ alone.

 

[Dead Duck]

 

[Ziggidy]

Better real confusion than false clarity.

Extremely simple issues and/or extremely complicated issues are a matter of subjectivity. Sometimes digging for real truths prevents you from seeing and experiencing real Truth that stands right before you.

It was a simple question to find similarities among christians. It would appear you wish to maintain the divisional distance....and even widen it. What is it? Cannot answer it, just refuse to answer it or are afraid to answer it?

 

[T.Lex]

If any fandom has taught me anything... people will cling bitterly to their "exclusives".

Common ground isn't allowed.

The more I think about this, the funnier it gets.

 

[T.Lex]

Extremely simple issues and/or extremely complicated issues are a matter of subjectivity. Sometimes digging for real truths prevents you from seeing and experiencing real Truth that stands right before you.

It was a simple question to find similarities among christians. It would appear you wish to maintain the divisional distance....and even widen it. What is it? Cannot answer it, just refuse to answer it or are afraid to answer it?

Where in the Bible (other than when Jesus sets out the Love God/Love your neighbor paradigm) does it say things are simple? That concept is unbiblical.

In fact, it took the miracle of Christ's ascension to reveal to the Apostles clarity of understanding.

Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures

 

[Ziggidy]

Where in the Bible (other than when Jesus sets out the Love God/Love your neighbor paradigm) does it say things are simple? That concept is unbiblical.

In fact, it took the miracle of Christ's ascension to reveal to the Apostles clarity of understanding.

It was at that time the Holy Spirit was given to them. We have that same Holy Spirit today, available to us to give US the clarity of understanding. Jesus told us that.

Are you suggesting Jesus did not keep His word? That the Holy Spirit is not available for us today? That man can better teach than the Holy Spirit?

We have God, His Son and the Holy Spirit - what else is needed.

To think otherwise is unbiblical.

Now, would you care to answer the questions I posted about the similarities we share, or will you also dance around it?

 

[T.Lex]

It was at that time the Holy Spirit was given to them. We have that same Holy Spirit today, available to us to give US the clarity of understanding. Jesus told us that.

Citation please.

That is, please tell me where in the Bible that we all received the same clarity of understanding. Because if that is true, then we all are entitled to our own interpretation.

Are you suggesting Jesus did not keep His word?

No, I'm saying you're saying things that are unbiblical.

That the Holy Spirit is not available for us today?

I probably believe more about the currentness of the Holy Spirit than you do! I'm amongst those who believe in modern miracles.

That man can better teach than the Holy Spirit?

Not exactly. My point is more along the lines of how does one know that the Holy Spirit is delivering a lesson rather than... some other source?

We have God, His Son and the Holy Spirit - what else is needed.

To think otherwise is unbiblical.

Then please share where in the Bible it says that - that belief in the Trinity is all that is "needed." And/or clarify what you mean by saying that is all that "is needed." That begs the question, "needed" for what?

Now, would you care to answer the questions I posted about the similarities we share, or will you also dance around it?

Look, I'm not sure if you've really familiarized yourself with earlier postings in this thread, but I'm the guy who's always trying to find common ground.

I'm just letting you lead for awhile.

Don't worry, I don't see that lasting very long.

 

[Ziggidy]

Citation please.

That is, please tell me where in the Bible that we all received the same clarity of understanding. Because if that is true, then we all are entitled to our own interpretation.

No, I'm saying you're saying things that are unbiblical.

I probably believe more about the currentness of the Holy Spirit than you do! I'm amongst those who believe in modern miracles.

Not exactly. My point is more along the lines of how does one know that the Holy Spirit is delivering a lesson rather than... some other source?


Then please share where in the Bible it says that - that belief in the Trinity is all that is "needed." And/or clarify what you mean by saying that is all that "is needed." That begs the question, "needed" for what?

Look, I'm not sure if you've really familiarized yourself with earlier postings in this thread, but I'm the guy who's always trying to find common ground.

I'm just letting you lead for awhile.

Don't worry, I don't see that lasting very long.

"Modern miracle"? As opposed to? I believe miracles "continue" as they have always.

Unbiblical - You believe miracles happen in modern times (Knew what you meant as well as you know what I mean). I believe the entire story of mankind is, in a way, an ongoing miracle. Imagine if you can, one of thousands standing there when Jesus ascends into heaven. Before leaving us He tells us He will leave us His Holy Spirit and then suddenly, people understood. They had no bible back then so how did this Jesus maintain the continuity within those followers who were suddenly filled with the Holy Spirit?
Could it be a miracle? Could that same miracle happen today? Does it? Is what I am saying "unbiblical"? And imagine, they did not have any bible to reference to make sure they got it right.

How does that happen and does it still happen today? How does one test scripture today? The bible is the inspired word of God and although we are given the freedom to do what we wish with it, the Holy Spirit allows us to understand it. If we are listening to the Holy Spirit, He will not let us down. If it does not conform to scripture, then it isn't of God. Is that unbiblical?

Trinity needed for salvation? I never said that, you taking one line and being deceptive with it.

Dancing...I'm not good at dancing - in my younger years I may have been, but now I do not like it. I have experienced some very good dancers here, good at dancing around the questions.

As far as trying to find the common denominator of our christian faith should not be as difficult as it is being made here. It is almost like people are trying to hide something. I'm proud on my salvation through Jesus Christ, and Christ alone. BTW, I have been born again 25 years this month........that day was a miracle in "modern" times; and yes, in a flash I felt the change. I may not be as savvy as you and others, my memory may not remember every verse and I may still be rough around the edges......but I know, without any doubt that I am spending eternity with God.

And yes, it's that simple.

 

[NKBJ]

Yeah, kinda like listening to Londo and G'Kar on Babylon 5.

 

[NKBJ]

Went by a charity resale shop while Christmas shopping and found a bible study book "Jesus 90 Days With The One And Only".
This is gonna be fun.

 

[Dead Duck]

Yeah, kinda like listening to Londo and G'Kar on Babylon 5.

I love those guys.

 

[BugI02]

Citation please.

That is, please tell me where in the Bible that we all received the same clarity of understanding. Because if that is true, then we all are entitled to our own interpretation.



No, I'm saying you're saying things that are unbiblical.



I probably believe more about the currentness of the Holy Spirit than you do! I'm amongst those who believe in modern miracles.


Not exactly. My point is more along the lines of how does one know that the Holy Spirit is delivering a lesson rather than... some other source?



Then please share where in the Bible it says that - that belief in the Trinity is all that is "needed." And/or clarify what you mean by saying that is all that "is needed." That begs the question, "needed" for what?


Look, I'm not sure if you've really familiarized yourself with earlier postings in this thread, but I'm the guy who's always trying to find common ground.

I'm just letting you lead for awhile.

Don't worry, I don't see that lasting very long.

I find it ... interesting ... that the discussion has (been) morphed from a questioning of the basis in the Word for such beliefs as confession and absolution thru priest modulated penance to finger pointing about how far short of obeying Christ's instructions and admonitions we come and asking for biblical underpinning for our beliefs

We can certainly argue interpretations of the verses underlying our beliefs (and almost certainly will) but those will just be interpretations of the existing Word, the meaning of 'is' is, if you will

I'm not sure you can come up with anything in the Word supporting confession to a priest and temporal absolution through penance, but I could be wrong

You go first

 

[foszoe]

It's all about Jesus Christ. Christ saves, period.

And that is precisely why I won't agree with you.

That statement is not biblical.

 

[Ziggidy]

And that is precisely why I won't agree with you.

That statement is not biblical.

Well, many posts later, maybe you will understand that was the subject of my posts. If is is not, then how deep do we go to find the similarities. If that is not one of the similarities, then what is. It truly is a question. We do believe in Jesus, correct? That is a start? No?

You come across of having great knowledge of the bible, my hat is off to you. I am asking to share that so I can understand the similarities we may share. If there are none, then say it and so be it.

You ever get tired of dancing?

 

[Ziggidy]

And that is precisely why I won't agree with you.

That statement is not biblical.

I wonder how people got saved before they had the bible? They did not have anyone or anything around to tell them"that statement not biblical".......fo figure.

 

[JettaKnight]

Sola Christus... where have I heard that before?

 

[JettaKnight]

I wonder how people got saved before they had the bible? They did not have anyone or anything around to tell them"that statement not biblical".......fo figure.

It's almost as if they had a tradition, an oral record of who God is, like... there may be something just as important as a written word.