CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[JettaKnight]

...TO STAY!

 

[Ziggidy]

Not shifting gears here, but don't know what to think about this. The Pope is alleging that it is not good to have a personal relationship with Jesus? Adding to that he states that Jesus' death on the cross was, humanly speaking, a failure?

Pope Francis: A 'Personal Relationship With Jesus' is 'Harmful And Dangerous' - Page 3 of 3 - Truth And Action

 

[T.Lex]

The fullness of the quote is important: outside the communion and mediation of the church. If everyone relies on their own "personal" relationship with Christ, then each man is his own pope.

Yeah, I know that won't bother vast swaths of INGOers. But, the risk in that one-on-one only experience is that we would then rely too much on our own fallible understanding, to the exclusion of what is true.

That other part about failing on the cross, I'm not sure what that refers to? Like, that page said there'd be a link to that, but I didn't see it. (There's alot going on at that page, though, so I may have missed it.)

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Not shifting gears here, but don't know what to think about this. The Pope is alleging that it is not good to have a personal relationship with Jesus? Adding to that he states that Jesus' death on the cross was, humanly speaking, a failure?

Pope Francis: A 'Personal Relationship With Jesus' is 'Harmful And Dangerous' - Page 3 of 3 - Truth And Action

Wait...so if you're a convert through a missionary, let's say...and you don't have access to "meditation of the church", what are you supposed to do?

If he's saying it's better to join together and study and learn, check...I agree that is better. But this quote, standing on its own, is just weird.

 

[T.Lex]

Wait...so if you're a convert through a missionary, let's say...and you don't have access to "meditation of the church", what are you supposed to do?

Well, if the missionary is doing anything close to a good job, there'll be a church left over when he leaves.

Also, in that venue, the Pope isn't exactly addressing isolated indigenous tribes. Rather, the context is for the millions (billions?) of people paying attention in the secular world.

 

[2A_Tom]

The fullness of the quote is important: outside the communion and mediation of the church. If everyone relies on their own "personal" relationship with Christ, then each man is his own pope.

Yeah, I know that won't bother vast swaths of INGOers. But, the risk in that one-on-one only experience is that we would then rely too much on our own fallible understanding, to the exclusion of what is true.

That other part about failing on the cross, I'm not sure what that refers to? Like, that page said there'd be a link to that, but I didn't see it. (There's alot going on at that page, though, so I may have missed it.)

The context helps to realize that papa is going back to the hard line "catholicism is the only way".

The Jesus failed id directly out of the sun mung moon doctrine that Jesus was not supposed to die, but establish His earthly kingdom.

 

[JettaKnight]

Not shifting gears here, but don't know what to think about this. The Pope is alleging that it is not good to have a personal relationship with Jesus? Adding to that he states that Jesus' death on the cross was, humanly speaking, a failure?

Pope Francis: A 'Personal Relationship With Jesus' is 'Harmful And Dangerous' - Page 3 of 3 - Truth And Action

Ohhhh... I can't wait for Lutheran Satire to get a hold of this!


Actually, in reading it, I don't see anything new here. AFAIK, the Church has always considered it essential for connecting us to God.

 

[2A_Tom]

Actually, in reading it, I don't see anything new here. AFAIK, the catholic church has always considered itself essential for connecting us to God.

FTFY

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Well, if the missionary is doing anything close to a good job, there'll be a church left over when he leaves.

Also, in that venue, the Pope isn't exactly addressing isolated indigenous tribes. Rather, the context is for the millions (billions?) of people paying attention in the secular world.

That's why context is important. Because that's not what he said. I picked an extreme example to try to make my point, maybe too extreme but what about the shut in that cannot get to church? (I'm assuming "meditation of the church" type language means one has to be in a physical church building, being led by a priest).

Yeah, now I agree if you're "personal relationship with Christ" is not grounded in scripture and you're not testing things against it, that could be dangerous.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

The context helps to realize that papa is going back to the hard line "catholicism is the only way".

The Jesus failed id directly out of the sun mung moon doctrine that Jesus was not supposed to die, but establish His earthly kingdom.

It's hard to believe that God didn't get done exactly what he intended to get done while he was here on earth.

 

[2A_Tom]

Papa does not consider Churches a part of the roman catholic (universal) church.

 

[historian]

I mean, it is about the opposite reaction to this:

https://babylonbee.com/news/armed-just-personal-relationship-jesus-man-invents-several-new-heresies

 

[Dead Duck]

Such a simple thing to be saved.
Why does man have to go **** it all up?

 

[2A_Tom]

It's hard to believe that God didn't get done exactly what he intended to get done while he was here on earth.

But, you are a Baptist, so you will go to Hell according to his church.

 

[foszoe]

Not shifting gears here, but don't know what to think about this. The Pope is alleging that it is not good to have a personal relationship with Jesus? Adding to that he states that Jesus' death on the cross was, humanly speaking, a failure?

Pope Francis: A 'Personal Relationship With Jesus' is 'Harmful And Dangerous' - Page 3 of 3 - Truth And Action

Is a personal relationship with Jesus biblical? Where can I find reference to this in the gospels? The epistles?

 

[2A_Tom]

I mean, it is about the opposite reaction to this:

https://babylonbee.com/news/armed-just-personal-relationship-jesus-man-invents-several-new-heresies

Very interesting that they used John MacArthur as a reference to damnable heresy.

For $.02 who knows what he's famous for?

 

[historian]

Very interesting that they used John MacArthur as a reference to damnable heresy.

For $.02 who knows what he's famous for?

Writing a commentary...

 

[CampingJosh]

Very interesting that they used John MacArthur as a reference to damnable heresy.

For $.02 who knows what he's famous for?

The radio show? Is that the "most famous" one?

 

[2A_Tom]

Specifically what doctrine?




lordship salvation

Jesus did not have to die on the cross and shed his blood, he could have been suffocated for our sins.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

But, you are a Baptist, so you will go to Hell according to his church.

That's a chance I'm willing to take.