CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[2A_Tom]

Me too.

 

[NKBJ]

Such a simple thing to be saved.
Why does man have to go **** it all up?

Yeah, darn good question.
But we always mess things up don't we?

 

[NKBJ]

Is a personal relationship with Jesus biblical? Where can I find reference to this in the gospels? The epistles?

Looks like you don't have a choice about having a personal relationship with Him, only just what that relationship is gonna be.
Well, that and how long it lasts. Uh, if time exists that is.
That's where Duck Rogers goes beyond the 5th dimension and I don't understanding it. Not yet. But each day could be another story.

 

[T.Lex]

It's hard to believe that God didn't get done exactly what he intended to get done while he was here on earth.

Again, I'm not sure what the actual reference is to, since I couldn't see it on that site, but I suspect it is the earthly notion of "failure" that is discussed. That's a theme in many sermons I've heard.

By earthly standards, Christ's life and death was a failure. He was a king who died a humiliating death. He was betrayed by someone He trusted. At the time of His death, His followers were few, and generally outcast.

But God does not measure by earthly standards.

We should follow Christ and not be concerned with earthly rewards. We, too, should be willing to die as failures by man's standards.

 

[Ziggidy]

Is a personal relationship with Jesus biblical? Where can I find reference to this in the gospels? The epistles?

And where does it say that the church is how we get to heaven?

 

[Dead Duck]

Church is overrated.

All I need is an open heart and an open mind. He will do the rest.

Let me see, am I missing anything??? Nope!

 

[Ziggidy]

Again, I'm not sure what the actual reference is to, since I couldn't see it on that site, but I suspect it is the earthly notion of "failure" that is discussed. That's a theme in many sermons I've heard.

By earthly standards, Christ's life and death was a failure. He was a king who died a humiliating death. He was betrayed by someone He trusted. At the time of His death, His followers were few, and generally outcast.

But God does not measure by earthly standards.

We should follow Christ and not be concerned with earthly rewards. We, too, should be willing to die as failures by man's standards.

Just google pope says Jesus death on cross failure.

I don't care how one spins it, it is the wrong thing to say. Add to that his statement that a personal relationship with Christ without the church is dangerous and wrong........totally not scripture. As a matter of fact, Christ spoke out against that and the "law" of the high and mighty "righteous" religious leaders.

The only - ONLY - way to be saved is through Jesus - NOTHING else. It's His sacrifice alone.....nothing - NOTHING ELSE - the church can do to get me there, NOTHING.

 

[T.Lex]

Just google pope says Jesus death on cross failure.

Ah, right.

I guess there was a reason it sounded familiar. It appears to be from 2015.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/did-pope-francis-really-say-jesus-was-a-failure

I don't care how one spins it, it is the wrong thing to say.

It was not. But since you can decide for yourself if things are wrong, we can all rely on your infallibility?

Add to that his statement that a personal relationship with Christ without the church is dangerous and wrong........totally not scripture. As a matter of fact, Christ spoke out against that and the "law" of the high and mighty "righteous" religious leaders.

First, again, that's not what the pope said.

Second, now you have me curious for the scriptural citation that you quote.

The only - ONLY - way to be saved is through Jesus - NOTHING else. It's His sacrifice alone.....nothing - NOTHING ELSE - the church can do to get me there, NOTHING.

Nothing adds emphasis like speaking ex cathedra.

 

[Ziggidy]

^^^^ To suggest that the death on the cross, from a human perspective, is a failure should not be stated, it is wrong....without further clarification.

"We" know the outcome. We have the written Word telling us the purpose......we have God telling us it is anything but a failure; it is God's plan spoken throughout history since the beginning.

Sometimes the enemy comes to confuse, create misunderstanding, chaos. Those words certainly did just that. I personally think this pope could have said it differently, more appropriately; such as - To those who were at the foot of the cross and all the spectators, it may have appeared that His death was a failure, but the story does not end there. 3 days later He proved to those who did not understand, it was not a failure but part of God's plann your redemption. That would have been so much better -

Add to that, his remarks that we common people are not "smart enough" (my paraphrase) to know how to have a personal relationship with Christ and we MUST have the church in there, without the church it is much too dangerous. What would we do without the almighty catholic church? It seems the pope (not just this one) is trying to build up membership...relying on fear, ignorance and such. All bogus.

It's all about Jesus, period.

But when you claim it is just about Jesus, you cannot control people......enter, organized religion - the church.

 

[2A_Tom]

Church is overrated.

All I need is an open heart and an open mind. He will do the rest.

Let me see, am I missing anything??? Nope!

Church is not necessary to Salvation. Believing that Jesus is the only way, truth, life, gate, door, through his shed blood is all that is necessary to Salvation.

Matthew 18:20 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Hebrews 10:25 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Baptism is not necessary to Salvation as no work can get you to Heaven. It imparts no grace. Only faith in Christ imparts Saving Grace. Baptism is no more than a public display of your faith in Jesus Christ. All it does is get you wet. It is a picture of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Standing in deep water is a picture of the Cross, going under the water is a picture of His death and coming up out of the water is a picture of His resurrection. It is the manner in which people show that they have been Saved.

 

[foszoe]

I noticed no biblical quotes in your response.

And where does it say that the church is how we get to heaven?

 

[foszoe]

Considering just about every epistle was written to a church, that is an interesting take.

But since your position is one of being spiritual but not religious, at least it's consistent.

Church is overrated.

All I need is an open heart and an open mind. He will do the rest.

Let me see, am I missing anything??? Nope!

 

[foszoe]

Posting the link for truth and whatever dot org instead of the full text of the statement and you claim its not how one spins it.

Then read and cite the actual sources.

Just google pope says Jesus death on cross failure.

I don't care how one spins it, it is the wrong thing to say. Add to that his statement that a personal relationship with Christ without the church is dangerous and wrong........totally not scripture. As a matter of fact, Christ spoke out against that and the "law" of the high and mighty "righteous" religious leaders.

The only - ONLY - way to be saved is through Jesus - NOTHING else. It's His sacrifice alone.....nothing - NOTHING ELSE - the church can do to get me there, NOTHING.

 

[DragonGunner]

I'll just leave this here, scripture is better than
anyones opinion....imho.

Acts 2:37-

[FONT=&amp]37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.[/FONT]
Clearly believing also means to act....The devil believes in one God yet that belief is not enough to save him.....Repent and be baptized.

James 2:19 King James Version (KJV)

[FONT=&amp]19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Repent and be baptized....is baptism a must then. Seems the scripture says yes.

1 Peter 3:21 - The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


[/FONT]

 

[Ziggidy]

I noticed no biblical quotes in your response.

Don't need any specific verse, the entire bible speaks of salvation through Jesus Christ.

If you wish to hinge your salvation on looking for a verse in the bible that says the church is needed for salvation - you won't find it.

 

[Ziggidy]

Considering just about every epistle was written to a church, that is an interesting take.

But since your position is one of being spiritual but not religious, at least it's consistent.

And who is the church of Christ?

 

[2A_Tom]

I'll just leave this here, scripture is better than
anyones opinion....imho.

Acts 2:37-

[FONT=&amp]37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.[/FONT]
Clearly believing also means to act....The devil believes in one God yet that belief is not enough to save him.....Repent and be baptized.

James 2:19 King James Version (KJV)

[FONT=&amp]19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Repent and be baptized....is baptism a must then. Seems the scripture says yes.

1 Peter 3:21 - The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


[/FONT]

Then you do not believe that you are saves by faith in Christ, but through your works?

 

[CampingJosh]

Then you do not believe that you are saves by faith in Christ, but through your works?

Show me your faith without works.

Works don't save anyone. But the kind of "faith" that doesn't lead us to do anything also doesn't save anyone.

 

[2A_Tom]

Show who?

 

[2A_Tom]

Show?