CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[2A_Tom]

Faith that leads you to do works sounds OK to me.

 

[foszoe]

Don't need any specific verse, the entire bible speaks of salvation through Jesus Christ.

If you wish to hinge your salvation on looking for a verse in the bible that says the church is needed for salvation - you won't find it.

Hmm the challenge to you was to find personal relationship...I see you are not having much success

 

[foszoe]

And who is the church of Christ?

What does your Bible say?

 

[BugI02]

I noticed no biblical quotes in your response.

Acts 4:11-12 King James Version (KJV)

[FONT=&amp]11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


I believe that is the first earthly head of 'the church' speaking[/FONT]

 

[BugI02]

Church is not necessary to Salvation. Believing that Jesus is the only way, truth, life, gate, door, through his shed blood is all that is necessary to Salvation.





Baptism is not necessary to Salvation as no work can get you to Heaven. It imparts no grace. Only faith in Christ imparts Saving Grace. Baptism is no more than a public display of your faith in Jesus Christ. All it does is get you wet. It is a picture of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Standing in deep water is a picture of the Cross, going under the water is a picture of His death and coming up out of the water is a picture of His resurrection. It is the manner in which people show that they have been Saved.

[h=1]John 3:5 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.[/FONT]

 

[2A_Tom]

So you must be born 3 times?

Or does the water refer to your birth and the Spirit to your Salvation?

Let us look at that in context.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Nicodemus had already been born once he had to be born again. Had the verse you quoted stated that you must be born of the Spirit and the water it may have been talking about baptism after salvation to kind of complete salvation. Think about it, does that make sense?

Ye must be born again and again and again and again and... Arminianism formulated by Jacobus Arminius to counter TULIP.

 

[foszoe]

Acts 4:11-12 King James Version (KJV)

[FONT=&amp]11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


I believe that is the first earthly head of 'the church' speaking[/FONT]

Still looking for the word personal...good luck!

Try personal NEAR salvation...some will even let you choose within how many words define NEAR.

 

[2A_Tom]

Foz, Salvation is personal in that you can not pass it on to your children.

The church (whatever church that says it can) cannot grant it to you.

The only way that you can be Saved is to accept Christ personally.

Romans 10: 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 13:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Every instance of a person being Saved was a personal experience.

 

[Dead Duck]

So....
If I were catholic, I wouldn't be going to heaven by just opening up my heart to let Him in?

 

[2A_Tom]

Scripture reference please?

Open up your heart?

Ask Jesus to come into your heart?

Jesus lives inside of you?

ETA: Many phrases that people use have no basis in Scripture?

 

[BugI02]

And where does it say that the church is how we get to heaven?

I noticed no biblical quotes in your response.

Still looking for the word personal...good luck!

Try personal NEAR salvation...some will even let you choose within how many words define NEAR.

It was the first two quotes, juxtaposed in reverse order in #3571, that toggled my post

I haven't read the entire thread, as I've never been good at counting the angels on a pinhead

 

[2A_Tom]

The title of the thread is all things...

You would go crazy trying to read the entire thread.

The current subject changes more than a group stoned on some really good weed.

You will have to excuse me I have the munchies.

 

[2A_Tom]

And where does it say that the church is how we get to heaven?

A misunderstanding of Matthew 16:18 and Matthew 18:18.

 

[BugI02]

So you must be born 3 times?

Or does the water refer to your birth and the Spirit to your Salvation?

Let us look at that in context.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Nicodemus had already been born once he had to be born again. Had the verse you quoted stated that you must be born of the Spirit and the water it may have been talking about baptism after salvation to kind of complete salvation. Think about it, does that make sense?

Ye must be born again and again and again and again and... Arminianism formulated by Jacobus Arminius to counter TULIP.

It is " ... born of water AND of the Spirit". I have always held that verse to mean we accept Christ as our savior and be baptized (Full disclosure: I was a practicing Baptist until about the age of 13)

It is all part of one rebirth. Do you not find it significant that Jesus himself was baptized

 

[Dead Duck]

It is " ... born of water AND of the Spirit". I have always held that verse to mean we accept Christ as our savior and be baptized (Full disclosure: I was a practicing Baptist until about the age of 13)

It is all part of one rebirth. Do you not find it significant that Jesus himself was baptized

Baptism is great.
But is it a requirement to be saved?

 

[foszoe]

Baptism is great.
But is it a requirement to be saved?

What's great about baptism?

 

[Dead Duck]

What's great about baptism?

Well for starters, you get to take a bath 2 days in a row.
I hear that cleanliness is next to Godliness.

 

[DragonGunner]

Then you do not believe that you are saves by faith in Christ, but through your works?

What are my works that you speak of....? Faith will cause repentance and baptism, and we are saved by Grace lest any man should boast.

 

[2A_Tom]

So baptism is not a work?

 

[Ziggidy]

A misunderstanding of Matthew 16:18 and Matthew 18:18.

Yes, I agree. The one of many difficulties is this opens the door to man perverting what God has told us. All of a sudden we have a man adding to or subtracting to God's word and than man telling, well, God said I can.

Peace....