CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[Dead Duck]

No. Kinda the opposite, actually. Read the whole package together.

"whole package" - You mean the bible?

I'm saying that the catholic church picks and chooses what it wants from the bible and discards the rest. Similar to what what said earlier. That's all.

I still haven't found anyone to share with me about all the catholic stuff that's in the bible.
You know....the pope, the holy blessed mother of God virgin Mary (that seems to be prayed to alot?), trinkets and statues that are kissed and prayed with(including Mary)? It just looks like a bunch of man made rules and procedures that got out of hand.

Most catholics I know and have talked to say that they like it because they want to be told what to do and like all the reminders around them. Structure, structure, structure. I can't imagine that all catholics feel that way but I could be wrong.

 

[2A_Tom]

"whole package" - You mean the bible?

I'm saying that the catholic church picks and chooses what it wants from the bible and discards the rest. Similar to what what said earlier. That's all.

I still haven't found anyone to share with me about all the catholic stuff that's in the bible.
You know....the pope, the holy blessed mother of God virgin Mary (that seems to be prayed to alot?), trinkets and statues that are kissed and prayed with(including Mary)? It just looks like a bunch of man made rules and procedures that got out of hand.

Most catholics I know and have talked to say that they like it because they want to be told what to do and like all the reminders around them. Structure, structure, structure. I can't imagine that all catholics feel that way but I could be wrong.

It is in the Bible.

Exodus 20:19 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextAnd they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Exodus 32:23 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextFor they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall go before us: for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

[SUB]Exodus 20:4 +5 Thou[/SUB][SUB] shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[/SUB][SUB]Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;[/SUB]

Mary is blessed among women.

Luke 1:42 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextAnd she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

But, Jael is blessed above women. Why do they not pray to her.

Judges 5:24 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextBlessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent.

1 Timothy 4:3 | View whole chapter | See verse in contextForbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

 

[Dead Duck]

It is in the Bible.
Mary is blessed among women.
But, Jael is blessed above women. Why do they not pray to her.

Yes and no.
Yes worship the one true God. Yes virgin human Mary birthed the son of God who died for our sins and came back as the spirit. Holy trinity. OK.

But I've seen more Mary statues is EVERY size imaginable than any old Jesus pictures and figures combined. I have also seen where it looks like catholics are literally worshiping her. If not I suppose they could be praying to her very "dramatically". And I'm still assuming here that they were told to do this from nuns or the school priests or they will live in hell and burn eternally. Ya, I picked up on all the threats. It helps keep them in line when they're younger.....and older. Go with what works.

Still where again are we suppose to vote for a pope to control the world of priests and nuns? And why are we suppose to give them all that power over us?

It still looks all man made. I know the bible is not an easy to follow manual but I just don't see it in there.


I do like your last verse about eating turkey for thanksgiving. How did they know about that all those years ago?

 

[2A_Tom]

You didn't see the purple?

 

[Dead Duck]

No I thought you were being serious. I belivethed in you....

 

[Ziggidy]

There is only truth, whether or not one believes it or not. It is when we are side tracked; start to focus on differences of opinion, is when take our eyes off of truth. It is the effort of the enemy and we oblige when we fail to come together in truth.

Jesus Christ is Lord. Jesus is God in the flesh, He was born without sin, He never sinned, He died for the forgiveness of man's sin. If we believe that and place our faith in Him, and accept His sacrifice for us.....we are saved. Period. His grace is sufficient, nothing else is needed. By accepting His grace we are justified and the sanctification process begins. Yes, we can fall out of grace by our choice.

This is bible, God's word. Don't make it harder than what it is. ANYTHING man tries to tell you, always compare it with the Word. Don't take the word of man when you can accept the Word of God.

Anything else is the enemy at work.

 

[2A_Tom]

this is why I seldom visit this thread.

 

[NKBJ]

There is only truth, whether or not one believes it or not. It is when we are side tracked; start to focus on differences of opinion, is when take our eyes off of truth. It is the effort of the enemy and we oblige when we fail to come together in truth.

Jesus Christ is Lord. Jesus is God in the flesh, He was born without sin, He never sinned, He died for the forgiveness of man's sin. If we believe that and place our faith in Him, and accept His sacrifice for us.....we are saved. Period. His grace is sufficient, nothing else is needed. By accepting His grace we are justified and the sanctification process begins. Yes, we can fall out of grace by our choice.

This is bible, God's word. Don't make it harder than what it is. ANYTHING man tries to tell you, always compare it with the Word. Don't take the word of man when you can accept the Word of God.

Anything else is the enemy at work.

Bingo.

 

[foszoe]

If we can fall out of God's grace by our choice then what is God's grace sufficient for?

There is only truth, whether or not one believes it or not. It is when we are side tracked; start to focus on differences of opinion, is when take our eyes off of truth. It is the effort of the enemy and we oblige when we fail to come together in truth.

Jesus Christ is Lord. Jesus is God in the flesh, He was born without sin, He never sinned, He died for the forgiveness of man's sin. If we believe that and place our faith in Him, and accept His sacrifice for us.....we are saved. Period. His grace is sufficient, nothing else is needed. By accepting His grace we are justified and the sanctification process begins. Yes, we can fall out of grace by our choice.

This is bible, God's word. Don't make it harder than what it is. ANYTHING man tries to tell you, always compare it with the Word. Don't take the word of man when you can accept the Word of God.

Anything else is the enemy at work.

 

[2A_Tom]

2 Timothy 1:12 | View whole chapter | See verse in context
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

John 10: 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.

Ephesians 1:12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So much that the bible says about who's job it is to keep you saved.

Your only requirement is to accept the free gift.

 

[Ziggidy]

If we can fall out of God's grace by our choice then what is God's grace sufficient for?

I am not willing to debate this long time question; however, I will say this. Many people state that if you are truly saved, then no, you cannot lose the gift. It is my understanding that some believe that anyone who "loses" salvation was never saved to begin with.

I don't know if that is true or not. Once some one claims to have accepted Christ as savior, and they seemingly step aside, who am I to say they were never saved to begin with? That is a judgement call that in reality, only God knows for certain...since the act of accepting Christ is between the person and Christ.

I think we can pull one liners out of scripture all day and place multiple interpretations on each; some extremely convincing on both sides. I refuse to place focus on topics as such because one from the sidelines can become confused and we all know the author of confusion. The only truth we know for certain is 1) Jesus is God, 2) He died for our salvation, 3) our faith in Him is the ONLY way to heaven (grossly basic). Beyond that we encounter religion.

 

[CampingJosh]

If we can fall out of God's grace by our choice then what is God's grace sufficient for?

In his telling of the parable of the sower (Matthew 13), Jesus seems to teach that it is possible for someone to hear the word and receive it with joy but later fall away.

That God allows free will should not be claimed as evidence of a lack of sovereignty.

 

[JettaKnight]

 

[foszoe]

Based on the reasoning above, God's grace is necessary but not sufficient. Your choice is necessary but not sufficient. That seems to imply that at the very least, grace + choice is necessary AND sufficient.

 

[wcd]

Just wondering How Suicide can not be a sin? Understanding often the person suffers from depression, and to them it seems like a good option. Always struggled trying to understand suicide.

 

[2A_Tom]

Taking the second greatest gift and throwing it away is a sin, just like lying.

 

[T.Lex]

"whole package" - You mean the bible?

Indeed, I do.

I'm saying that the catholic church picks and chooses what it wants from the bible and discards the rest. Similar to what what said earlier. That's all.

And in that, you would be wrong. At least, by comparison to modern Protestant denominations that actually tend to elevate certain passages to the point that others are meaningless.

Comparatively, Catholicism embodies a broader interpretation of the entire Bible than the Protestant denominations.

I still haven't found anyone to share with me about all the catholic stuff that's in the bible.
You know....the pope, the holy blessed mother of God virgin Mary (that seems to be prayed to alot?), trinkets and statues that are kissed and prayed with(including Mary)? It just looks like a bunch of man made rules and procedures that got out of hand.

This ground has been covered, I think even in this thread. I encourage you to do a little forum archaeology and then I'm open to answering any questions fairly, as long as you avoid pre-judging the answers.

Most catholics I know and have talked to say that they like it because they want to be told what to do and like all the reminders around them. Structure, structure, structure. I can't imagine that all catholics feel that way but I could be wrong.

You are right, about being wrong.

Well, I will absolutely concede that Catholicism does appeal to a large cross-section of people that either need structure to follow Jesus better, or prefer the Catholic approach to life and the afterlife.

There are many mansions in the Father's house.

 

[foszoe]

In reality, just about anything can be a sin, including suicide.

Just wondering How Suicide can not be a sin? Understanding often the person suffers from depression, and to them it seems like a good option. Always struggled trying to understand suicide.

 

[CampingJosh]

Based on the reasoning above, God's grace is necessary but not sufficient. Your choice is necessary but not sufficient. That seems to imply that at the very least, grace + choice is necessary AND sufficient.

I guess not if people don't actually have a choice, as some posit.

Perhaps I misunderstand the idea of "sufficient" as used in some Christian traditions. Is the understanding that Christ did everything, we do nothing, and then some are saved and some are not and we have no way to determine who is which? That doesn't seem right, but that seems to be the implication from your post.

If our choice/response is nothing, then Paul, John, and (especially) James sure wrote a bunch of meaninglessness.

 

[foszoe]

I guess not if people don't actually have a choice, as some posit.

Perhaps I misunderstand the idea of "sufficient" as used in some Christian traditions. Is the understanding that Christ did everything, we do nothing, and then some are saved and some are not and we have no way to determine who is which? That doesn't seem right, but that seems to be the implication from your post.

If our choice/response is nothing, then Paul, John, and (especially) James sure wrote a bunch of meaninglessness.

I will defer to jettaknight to distinguish between what you put forward and reformed theology.