CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[ArcadiaGP]

 

[T.Lex]

Because some of us rely on INGO to help keep us sane....

How much of the Kavanaugh issue might be related to him being Catholic? Now... I haven't heard an explicit linkage between his alleged abusive behavior and the clergy scandal, but it kinda feels to me that there might be that subtext. Of course, I will readily concede that sensitivities are running particularly high right now.

It just seems like there's a subcurrent of, "Well, it kinda makes sense..." that extends beyond the normal privileged-people-getting-away-with-stuff trope.

Particularly since it would keep a Catholic majority on SCOTUS.

 

[historian]

Because some of us rely on INGO to help keep us sane....

How much of the Kavanaugh issue might be related to him being Catholic? Now... I haven't heard an explicit linkage between his alleged abusive behavior and the clergy scandal, but it kinda feels to me that there might be that subtext. Of course, I will readily concede that sensitivities are running particularly high right now.

It just seems like there's a subcurrent of, "Well, it kinda makes sense..." that extends beyond the normal privileged-people-getting-away-with-stuff trope.

Particularly since it would keep a Catholic majority on SCOTUS.

TBH, I think it is less of that than you think. Remember, the floating backup is Barrett (who was explicitly trashed for being Catholic and much more devout [imho] than BK). Remember, SCOTUS is the least diverse place in the world. Harvard and Yale and from the Acela corridor. Catholic is the predominate religion of that area, so it isn't a surprise.

 

[T.Lex]

Yeah, I probably should've diluted my post with the acknowledgement that his Catholicness might not even be in the top 5 reasons that the Dems are fighting him.
- Republican nominee
- conservative
- qualified
- non-protected status
- Republican nominee

The specific discussion of the alleged abuse has the primary context of #MeToo, but seeing the headlines together made me think that there could be a meta link being made.

 

[JettaKnight]

Because some of us rely on INGO to help keep us sane....

How much of the Kavanaugh issue might be related to him being Catholic? Now... I haven't heard an explicit linkage between his alleged abusive behavior and the clergy scandal, but it kinda feels to me that there might be that subtext. Of course, I will readily concede that sensitivities are running particularly high right now.

It just seems like there's a subcurrent of, "Well, it kinda makes sense..." that extends beyond the normal privileged-people-getting-away-with-stuff trope.

Particularly since it would keep a Catholic majority on SCOTUS.

I think I recall hearing he was Catholic, but then shrugged... it's not like the sixties anymore.

Remember, SCOTUS is the least diverse place in the world. Harvard and Yale and from the Acela corridor. Catholic is the predominate religion of that area, so it isn't a surprise.

That's ironic given that both of those schools were founded by Congregationalist.

 

[historian]

The specific discussion of the alleged abuse has the primary context of #MeToo, but seeing the headlines together made me think that there could be a meta link being made.

Yeah. The big thing is that this is very different from what the RCC is dealing with. This is, allegedly, kid with kid and two years apart. Nothing like consenting adults (the Seminaries) or adults with kids (everywhere else).

 

[historian]

In case anyone suspected the Pope might be good: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-45613668

I'm wondering if the laity will rebel at some point.

 

[T.Lex]

In case anyone suspected the Pope might be good: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-45613668

I'm wondering if the laity will rebel at some point.

Not sure I follow.

He's kinda following a path similar to what JPII did with regard to Soviet communism. The church can be an agent of political change.

 

[historian]

Not sure I follow.

He's kinda following a path similar to what JPII did with regard to Soviet communism. The church can be an agent of political change.

He is letting the Commies pick the bishops. The state is getting control of the church. While they are bulldozing down churches. I mean, if you are ok with atheists appointing bishops, then o.k., but it seems weird to me.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/24/asia/china-vatican-bishops-opposition-intl/index.html

 

[T.Lex]

He is letting the Commies pick the bishops. The state is getting control of the church. While they are bulldozing down churches. I mean, if you are ok with atheists appointing bishops, then o.k., but it seems weird to me.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/24/asia/china-vatican-bishops-opposition-intl/index.html

Ah... I see the disconnect now.

First, the only real answer is "we'll see."

Second, though, probably the only entity with more experience playing the long game than China is the Catholic Church (with the possible exception of the Orthodox church).

He didn't agree to let China pick the bishops. They agreed that the Vatican would pick the bishops going forward. The Vatican recognized 8 bishops appointed by the government (one of whom is now dead, apparently - probably lead poisoning).

It is unclear what the process will look like in terms of the government suggesting bishops for approval by the Vatican or the other way around. The point is, that there is now a diplomatic formula for how it will work, with the Vatican making the final decision (on paper).

There is certainly room for critics to find things to criticize, particularly in a vacuum. But when viewed through the history of anti-communism, I think a different picture emerges.

[Quick googling for background]
Catholic Church in Poland | Making the History of 1989

 

[T.Lex]

[video=youtube;10sIkkw-je8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10sIkkw-je8[/video]

Language warning: dude has a THIKK accent.

ETA:
Another link:
https://www.ft.com/content/6d035e3a-bef8-11e8-95b1-d36dfef1b89a

It looks like both sides are declaring victory.

 

[indiucky]

NSFW/language warning but VERY funny...Ricky from Trailer Park Boys finds out that God and Santa are not one in the same...Plus Ricky has a Jordan Peterson moment on explaining what being a man means....

[video=youtube;DLOpw7sj2O4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLOpw7sj2O4[/video]

 

[JettaKnight]

Lutheran Satire has an explanation about JWs.

[video=youtube;__7t_bGI8oo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__7t_bGI8oo[/video]

And Frank the Hippie Pope (aka Pope-to-not-catch-a-pedator the 75th) speaks out against weapons.

[video=youtube;QwR3AV-Rkxc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwR3AV-Rkxc[/video]

 

[JettaKnight]

And in a serious tone - what doctrine do we have to agree on, and what can we disagree on?

Al Mohler briefly touches on it during a Q&A. (cued to 10:28)

<em>[video=youtube;TsXTuWi4zUA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsXTuWi4zUA&amp;t=628s[/video]

 

[foszoe]

Pope Francis Accepts D.C. Cardinal Wuerl’s Resignation https://www.wsj.com/articles/pope-francis-accepts-d-c-archbishop-wuerls-resignation-1539338834

 

[foszoe]

And in a serious tone - what doctrine do we have to agree on, and what can we disagree on?

Al Mohler briefly touches on it during a Q&A. (cued to 10:28)

<em>[video=youtube;TsXTuWi4zUA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsXTuWi4zUA&amp;t=628s[/video]

At first I thought...not another lecture on transformers.

I can agree with the methodology and appreciate his efforts at clarifying. I believe all Primary doctrines were settled by th e councils and he insists one must accept specifically salvation by faith alone.

So he is either elevating a secondary doctrine to a primary doctrine in which case if he articulates it under the umbrella of a doctrine that was lost in the west or relegated from primary to secondary post schism, could be an interesting discussion.

Or he has misunderstood an already existing primary doctrine thus making it actually a tertiary doctrine and causing schism.

 

[historian]

Pope Francis Accepts D.C. Cardinal Wuerl’s Resignation https://www.wsj.com/articles/pope-francis-accepts-d-c-archbishop-wuerls-resignation-1539338834

And does it poorly! Accept it an move on. Don't qualify! Good grief. He has terrible PR people.

 

[JettaKnight]

At first I thought...not another lecture on transformers.

I can agree with the methodology and appreciate his efforts at clarifying. I believe all Primary doctrines were settled by th e councils and he insists one must accept specifically salvation by faith alone.

So he is either elevating a secondary doctrine to a primary doctrine in which case if he articulates it under the umbrella of a doctrine that was lost in the west or relegated from primary to secondary post schism, could be an interesting discussion.

Or he has misunderstood an already existing primary doctrine thus making it actually a tertiary doctrine and causing schism.

Well... he is a Baptist... For "Gospel Centered Protestants" (aka Evangelicals aka classical Fundamentalist), the Solas are a primary issue. That's the reason we keep RC and Orthodox at arm's length. Just look at how Hank Hanigraff was treated when he converted to Orthodox - you'd think he went full Rob Bell by the outcasting.

Not agreeing or disagreeing, but that's how it is, maybe not how it was pre-reformation.

 

[foszoe]

I never really followed Hanigraff other than through Protestants. I didn't realize how "important" he was

I still don't

I've only read a handful of articles about it and/or by him.

Well... he is a Baptist... For "Gospel Centered Protestants" (aka Evangelicals aka classical Fundamentalist), the Solas are a primary issue. That's the reason we keep RC and Orthodox at arm's length. Just look at how Hank Hanigraff was treated when he converted to Orthodox - you'd think he went full Rob Bell by the outcasting.

Not agreeing or disagreeing, but that's how it is, maybe not how it was pre-reformation.

 

[JettaKnight]

I never really followed Hanigraff other than through Protestants. I didn't realize how "important" he was

I still don't

I've only read a handful of articles about it and/or by him.

I loved to listen to his show, The Bible Answer Man; smart guy, and can explain things in concrete terms with practical language. When he converted, Bott Radio Network dropped him like a hot potato; but they keep the Trump sycophant, Robert Jeffress and Religious Right zealots like Janet Mefferd (who sits squarely in the "Don't be gay, sparky!" camp) and David Barton (infamous for his pseudo-history).

When he converted, my first thought was, "Hmm, maybe Orthodox has some more merits than I thought." Of course, our discussions lead me to that same conclusion, but I'll continue to cling tight to Faith Alone.