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    T.Lex

    T.Lex

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    Bartman said:
    Today I learned-- the Catholic church considers my marriage fake news.

    I posted in this thread a couple of months ago about how I'm trying to find the denomination that's the best fit, and the issues that have come up between my wife and I over it. Over the past month or so, I've been looking pretty deeply into the Catholic faith. I've been doing some reading on it, I've been to Mass a handful of times (without taking communion) praying about it and even skipping meat on Fridays. I find myself drawn more to the liturgical style of worship. I won't go much into the recent scandal. While it's disconcerting, I don't see it as cause to abandon the faith completely.

    I've been reading a book from the library - Catholicism for Dummies and I ran across the phrase "valid marriage." To rehash from my previous post, my wife was married previously before we met. Before I was born, as a matter of fact. She got married when she was 16 and pregnant. The fact that she was getting away from her verbally abusive mother was just gravy. Years later, she divorced him for being unfaithful and on the strong suspicion that he was molesting their daughter. After her kids were grown, she met me and obviously knew a good thing when she saw it. :D

    So, since her first marriage wasn't annulled by the Catholic church, the church places more value in her shotgun marriage to her abusive, adulterous ex-husband than in her marriage to me. Consequently, for the 18 years that I've been legally married to my wife, according to the church I've been committing adultery. Ain't that a hoot? Now the way I read the Canon, there seems to be cause for annulling her first marriage given the circumstances. Of course, I can't do that for her, she would have to initiate the process herself. Did I mention that she's Baptist? So she's been less that happy with the fact that I've been flirting with Catholicism. I mean I could force the issue, because we all know how healthy ultimatums are for a marriage. But to be honest, I've been disillusioned by the whole thing. I seem to be more interested in keeping my marriage together than the church is.
    Click to expand...

    Check with the parish priest, who may refer you to a diocesan level person (maybe even a lay person with knowledge of the subject). The rules are convoluted.

    Frankly, your wife's case may present some of the easiest grounds for an annullment, if it is even necessary. Was she married in the Catholic tradition? If not, it is probably fake news (from Catholic perspective) anyway, and may not need to be annulled. If it was Catholic, then her underage, abusive context very likely means there was a failure of consent. Put simply, that marriage was unlikely to have been blessed from the very beginning, making it void.

    I am not an expert on this area, though.

    Really, IMHO, you should get information on the process to convert to Catholicism. If the marriage issue is turning you off, I'm not sure some of the other details will be any better. I am praying for your discernment, though. I truly hope you find what you're looking for in Christ.
     
    indiucky

    indiucky

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    Indiucky, Across the river from Kentuckiana
    DKqOqDAVYAEu1OW.jpg
     
    JettaKnight

    JettaKnight

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    Bartman said:
    ...
    Did I mention that she's Baptist?
    ...
    Click to expand...

    So... then who cares what the Catholic church says?

    And from the reading this, I'd say the current marriage is a helluva lot more "valid" than the previous one.


    I seem to remember you came here a while back asking questions, but I don't exactly remember what.
     
    JettaKnight

    JettaKnight

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    Some funny stuff for Foszoe to roll his eyes at. :):

    [video=youtube;lr8dECuoGTo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr8dECuoGTo[/video]
     
    foszoe

    foszoe

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    Here is something we can talk about for a bit :)

    I was reading Galatians 6 esp. vs 12.

    One thing I bring up often is division in the Protestant churches, or the use of denominations etc. The typical response is we don't disagree on anything "essential" to which my reply is who decided what was essential? Today though I would like to ask for Biblical evidence that fracturing the body of Christ is ok as long as its over non essentials?

    One phrase I often hear as an Orthodox is that "you follow the traditions of men".

    I am starting to think my response should be "and so do you". :)

    So what keeps you going to your denominational churches vs others? Is it traditions of men? Why or Why not?
     
    historian

    historian

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    foszoe said:
    Here is something we can talk about for a bit :)

    I was reading Galatians 6 esp. vs 12.

    One thing I bring up often is division in the Protestant churches, or the use of denominations etc. The typical response is we don't disagree on anything "essential" to which my reply is who decided what was essential? Today though I would like to ask for Biblical evidence that fracturing the body of Christ is ok as long as its over non essentials?

    One phrase I often hear as an Orthodox is that "you follow the traditions of men".

    I am starting to think my response should be "and so do you". :)

    So what keeps you going to your denominational churches vs others? Is it traditions of men? Why or Why not?
    Click to expand...

    So my response is that the apostles were obviously Baptists, so there! :p

    But in reality, I am very open to other denominations. I don't think that Baptists have it all right, but are closer than most. Why I'm not RC is that I think they have the structure inverted from Scripture. Why I'm not orthodox is because I don't know any other than you and they don't exactly have a ton of local churches. I like their structure somewhat, but I'm still not sold on it, but there are some disagreements that I know of (Icons being a big one, but you are better than Catholics, so there is that). I'm not Presbyterian (PCA) because I believe in Believer's Baptism. I'm not Methodist, Presbyterian (PCUSA) or Lutheran (ECLA at least) because I believe the Bible. I'm not Anglican because if I wanted to be a Catholic I would be. I'm not Episcopalian because if I wanted to be Anglican I would be.
     
    foszoe

    foszoe

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    Ironically, I was picking between 2 subjects, but this one won out.

    In the Orthodox tradition, September 1st is the new year so happy new year!

    Theologically that means Salvation history starts all over again. So Sept 8th we celebrate the Birthday of Mary (the Theotokos sans Immaculate Conception TLex), but the next great feast is to remind us of where we are going for Mary always points to Jesus or you are doing your theology wrong. So this coming weekend is the Exaltation of the Cross. Well that means that the weekend before the Cross we read about the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3 (after all John 3:16 kinda sums it all up right?). In this passage is Jesus talking about Moses using imagery to heal the Israelites. It is this imagery that I use most often as a biblical defense of icons in the sense that the 2nd commandment must not have ruled out imagery completely. The true Orthodox defense should always start with a denial of icons is a denial of the Incarnation but that is rather difficult to do in a sentence or two on a forum :)

    I think this may be why when Protestants wanted to do away with imagery they couldn't get rid of the cross, but I have been in a few where I didn't even see the cross even though that is our boast. Very confusing.

    If I am the only Orthodox you know, it's no wonder you ain't Orthodox :)

    Oh and they were old time Baptists because they believed you had to be baptized! There are now Baptists who say you don't need to be baptized to be a member of their congregation!

    historian said:
    So my response is that the apostles were obviously Baptists, so there! :p

    But in reality, I am very open to other denominations. I don't think that Baptists have it all right, but are closer than most. Why I'm not RC is that I think they have the structure inverted from Scripture. Why I'm not orthodox is because I don't know any other than you and they don't exactly have a ton of local churches. I like their structure somewhat, but I'm still not sold on it, but there are some disagreements that I know of (Icons being a big one, but you are better than Catholics, so there is that). I'm not Presbyterian (PCA) because I believe in Believer's Baptism. I'm not Methodist, Presbyterian (PCUSA) or Lutheran (ECLA at least) because I believe the Bible. I'm not Anglican because if I wanted to be a Catholic I would be. I'm not Episcopalian because if I wanted to be Anglican I would be.
    Click to expand...
     
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