Carrier Corp. Moving out of Indy, 1,400 Jobs Gone

[jd4320t]

This is the first thing I read when I woke up this morning. I have three good friends who work there.

 

[sig-guy]

They've been manufacturing A-coils there for years...

 

[Kutnupe14]

It's sad that this is becoming so common with companies. How do these companies expect to sell products if people don't have jobs to pay for them?

There are some pretty solid markets out east..... WAY east.

 

[AA&E]

That giant sucking sound that H. Ross Perot talked about, and every one told him he was an idiot. Funny how that sucking sound is getting louder.

Funny story about the first Japanese company to build cars in the USA, including body panels stamped here, tires from Akron, an engine plant built here and one of the highest US content of just about any car at the time, Honda decided to make their current generation Fit in Mexico. Honda prided itself on very high quality, and were shocked to find parts being stolen from their transportation vehicles, trains and semis. And the assembly line quality was nowhere near what Honda mandates requiring many cars coming off the line to have to be repaired including some cars found with parts missing.

When they say it is cheap, they weren't kidding. Cheap not inexpensive.

I wonder what the quality of Mexican Carrier HVAC will be?

And yet there are some here who will only point to unions as being the problem.

These job losses are further decimating the middle class...

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It's sad that this is becoming so common with companies. How do these companies expect to sell products if people don't have jobs to pay for them?

How much of this is corporations chasing expanding profits and how much of it is them chasing competitiveness? How many of us, when shopping for a new heat pump or air conditioner even bother to ask where the unit is made? I'd wager, given available options, 95%+ of people shop by price, as the prime factor or at least the tie breaker. If Bryant can sell their units 10% less because of lower labor rates and impact of fewer regulations compared to a comparable Carrier, you know what most people will do.

We're doing this to ourselves.

 

[churchmouse]

And yet there are some here who will only point to unions as being the problem.

These job losses are further decimating the middle class...

Osha/EPA/Un-seen Gov. mandates and regulations/**** poor management......these are the contributing factors.

Union wages are not the only factor in these moves.

 

[churchmouse]

How much of this is corporations chasing expanding profits and how much of it is them chasing competitiveness? How many of us, when shopping for a new heat pump or air conditioner even bother to ask where the unit is made? I'd wager, given available options, 95%+ of people shop by price, as the prime factor or at least the tie breaker. If Bryant can sell their units 10% less because of lower labor rates and impact of fewer regulations compared to a comparable Carrier, you know what most people will do.

We're doing this to ourselves.

You hit he nail on the head.
I have seriously narrowed my field of available customers to just word of mouth and Ingo.
People will trip over a $5 bill to pick up nickels. Price price price. Then they want the 10 year warr. and squeal like smashed cats when it is not available on the bargain basement crap cheap equipment.

I seldom see folks "Budget" for a new system. Most run them till they are dead. Then scramble to get the funds together for the new equipment. All the while knowing the existing system is old and failing.

 

[PistolBob]

Something's gotta give when 3/4 of the workforce is making $70k (if that article is accurate...). Combine high wages with benefits, pensions, and costs associated with increased regulation and what does one expect to happen? The Golden Goose dies when things get out-of-balance. Saw the same thing happen in Bloomington at the GE refrigerator plant when I was there discussing some contact work. It wasn't pretty.

I have a relative that has been there 17 years....there is no pension, they have a 401K, he's in the union, and he makes less than 50K with no overtime.

 

[churchmouse]

Something's gotta give when 3/4 of the workforce is making $70k (if that article is accurate...). Combine high wages with benefits, pensions, and costs associated with increased regulation and what does one expect to happen? The Golden Goose dies when things get out-of-balance. Saw the same thing happen in Bloomington at the GE refrigerator plant when I was there discussing some contact work. It wasn't pretty.

Those folks make no where near that money.
Maybe Management but not the general work force.

 

[Crbn79]

How much of this is corporations chasing expanding profits and how much of it is them chasing competitiveness? How many of us, when shopping for a new heat pump or air conditioner even bother to ask where the unit is made? I'd wager, given available options, 95%+ of people shop by price, as the prime factor or at least the tie breaker. If Bryant can sell their units 10% less because of lower labor rates and impact of fewer regulations compared to a comparable Carrier, you know what most people will do.

We're doing this to ourselves.

Bryant is the Carrier Corp.

This is bad news overall.

 

[Hookeye]

Wonder how much FMLA will be used at the new plants?

Between drugs, FMLA and gov strings mandating hiring Ef Ups (they can't run a machine or remember what they were told yesterday but can sure buzz around on a smart phone)..............management won't enforce the rules, the unions are stuck with idiots.

In and out of the factory, we need a purge.

 

[churchmouse]

Wonder how much FMLA will be used at the new plants?

Between drugs, FMLA and gov strings mandating hiring Ef Ups (they can't run a machine or remember what they were told yesterday but can sure buzz around on a smart phone)..............management won't enforce the rules, the unions are stuck with idiots.

In and out of the factory, we need a purge.

Gene pool and entitlement attitudes.

 

[JTScribe]

I heard it too. $100? Seems too low. There has to be VERY little materials involved and very little manpower to assemble it for a total cost of $100.

Honestly, looking at my heat exchanger, it has one circuit board about 7 inches by 12 inches, a big fan, and some metal. $100 might be low but I would bet it's closer to that than $1,000.

 

[JTScribe]

???????


We use Carrier equipment pretty much exclusively. It has been reliable and efficient. Price points are acceptable as well.

We may change in light of this.

Amarican standard (Trane) makes good equipment as well. A bit pricier but to my knowledge built in the states. At least for now.

Rushville, Indiana.

 

[churchmouse]

Honestly, looking at my heat exchanger, it has one circuit board about 7 inches by 12 inches, a big fan, and some metal. $100 might be low but I would bet it's closer to that than $1,000.

There is mark ups as the equipment passes through the supply chain. That is business.
The final price paid by the end user is not what the factory see's. It has passed through the supply chain and been touched by at least 2 business interests.
Factory/distributor/installer. Marked up at every stop.
That folks do not see this is bothersome.

 

[JTScribe]

There is mark ups as the equipment passes through the supply chain. That is business.
The final price paid by the end user is not what the factory see's. It has passed through the supply chain and been touched by at least 2 business interests.
Factory/distributor/installer. Marked up at every stop.
That folks do not see this is bothersome.

I absolutely understand that, my point is that given production cost is already presumably low, are they really saving money? Does the increased shipping cost, increased defect rate, and bad PR equal or exceed the cost savings of moving production?

My own company has shifted back to domestic call centers and the customers love it. They are ec-freaking-static to speak to someone in America. That's goodwill and PR no advertising campaign can buy.

 

[jsharmon7]

1,400 good jobs will start leaving next year, and 1,400 middle class families are going to be scrounging. The problem with factory jobs is that there isn't a whole lot to fall back on that will pay as well. If all you've known for 10, 20, 30 years is making X part on Y machine, you can't exactly go hire on somewhere else tomorrow for the same pay and benefits. Plus the eyesore of that giant building sitting empty, like the RCA plant and some others.

It looks like their stock price has taken a dump in the last year, so I'm sure that may factor in.

 

[churchmouse]

I absolutely understand that, my point is that given production cost is already presumably low, are they really saving money? Does the increased shipping cost, increased defect rate, and bad PR equal or exceed the cost savings of moving production?

My own company has shifted back to domestic call centers and the customers love it. They are ec-freaking-static to speak to someone in America. That's goodwill and PR no advertising campaign can buy.

Look at previous posts concerning Gov. regulations. This is where the problem is. To damn many regulating alphabet agency's dipping in and controlling.
None of this south of the border. The equipment has to be in place but does not have to be operated.
No OSHA/EPA/etc.

 

[KLB]

That giant sucking sound that H. Ross Perot talked about, and every one told him he was an idiot. Funny how that sucking sound is getting louder.

Funny story about the first Japanese company to build cars in the USA, including body panels stamped here, tires from Akron, an engine plant built here and one of the highest US content of just about any car at the time, Honda decided to make their current generation Fit in Mexico. Honda prided itself on very high quality, and were shocked to find parts being stolen from their transportation vehicles, trains and semis. And the assembly line quality was nowhere near what Honda mandates requiring many cars coming off the line to have to be repaired including some cars found with parts missing.

When they say it is cheap, they weren't kidding. Cheap not inexpensive.

I wonder what the quality of Mexican Carrier HVAC will be?

I used to work for a seatbelt manufacturer. In the mid 90s they had a plant in Michigan City and two in Mexico. The belts made in Mexico were sent to the MC plant and went through a QC check. 10-25% of all of the belts failed on a daily basis. That didn't stop them from closing the MC plant and moving all of the production to Mexico, while removing the extra QC.

Funny thing was, most of the components were made in the Chicagoland area.

 

[HoughMade]

1,400 good jobs will start leaving next year, and 1,400 middle class families are going to be scrounging. The problem with factory jobs is that there isn't a whole lot to fall back on that will pay as well. If all you've known for 10, 20, 30 years is making X part on Y machine, you can't exactly go hire on somewhere else tomorrow for the same pay and benefits.....

My Dad explained this to me years ago. His advice- develop skills that you will own no matter whether the factory or mill shuts down. Growing up in Michigan, his example was the guy at the GM plant who made good money, but when the factory shut down, he had no marketable skills to take with him. He was dependent on a a big manufacturer providing a job for which no transferable skill set was required, and paying well for it.

My Dad was an electronic and software engineer, and he did that making missile guidance systems, then when he was laid off, medical devices for the same and better money. I practice law. Provided I can manage not to get disbarred, I own my license and can take it anywhere. A good buddy of mine is a machinist. He can make anything and updated his skills when the computer age hit. He has always been in demand. You may be an electrician, plumber, HVAC guy, welder, ironworker, whatever- own you skills and you own your future. Depend on the mill always being there, and you take your chances. Big companies don't have a great history of caring about the individual, so you have to care.

It's sad for these 1,400 families and many of them probably do have marketable skills. They will find jobs. Those who only knew how to do what they did will have a rough time for a while. Just a word to the wise.