Carrier Corp. Moving out of Indy, 1,400 Jobs Gone

[steveh_131]

And what fantasy world do you reside in where the largest consumer driven economy being driven to the brink of extinction doesn't harm these corporations 10 fold down the road. It's that short sighted mentality that's even more frustrating then those that can't see the immediate impact.

I agree, it does. But it isn't the job of corporations to endure permanent profit-losses for the good of the american economy. Their job is to make money now. They have to. It is not optional. If they don't make money, the owners/investors take their money and go home - and why wouldn't they? Why should they keep investing their time and money in a system that is bending them over?

There is only one entity that can solve this problem. The entity that created it - Big Government. Deregulate and lower taxes. Let unions fend for themselves, without government interference and support. Let states and localities manage their own air/water pollution issues. Get rid of obamacare. Get rid of OSHA. Get rid of minimum wages. Little things like Capitalism and Liberty. You know, the things that made this the largest consumer driven economy to begin with.

 

[cbhausen]

I agree, it does. But it isn't the job of corporations to endure permanent profit-losses for the good of the american economy. Their job is to make money now. They have to. It is not optional. If they don't make money, the owners/investors take their money and go home - and why wouldn't they? Why should they keep investing their time and money in a system that is bending them over?

There is only one entity that can solve this problem. The entity that created it - Big Government. Deregulate and lower taxes. Let unions fend for themselves, without government interference and support. Let states and localities manage their own air/water pollution issues. Get rid of obamacare. Get rid of OSHA. Get rid of minimum wages. Little things like Capitalism and Liberty. You know, the things that made this the largest consumer driven economy to begin with.

Hard to argue with this.

 

[UglyAmerican]

What steveh_131 said, but also impose tariffs on imports.

 

[AA&E]

I agree, it does. But it isn't the job of corporations to endure permanent profit-losses for the good of the american economy. Their job is to make money now. They have to. It is not optional. If they don't make money, the owners/investors take their money and go home - and why wouldn't they? Why should they keep investing their time and money in a system that is bending them over?

There is only one entity that can solve this problem. The entity that created it - Big Government. Deregulate and lower taxes. Let unions fend for themselves, without government interference and support. Let states and localities manage their own air/water pollution issues. Get rid of obamacare. Get rid of OSHA. Get rid of minimum wages. Little things like Capitalism and Liberty. You know, the things that made this the largest consumer driven economy to begin with.

The question is, is part of deregulation free trade initiatives and removed tariffs? You can't expect American workers to compete with workers from nations where they have no modern conveniences and live in dirt floor huts.... unless you want that to become the standard of living for Americans as well.

 

[AA&E]

What steveh_131 said, but also impose tariffs on imports.

This is my primary opposition to what is occurring right now. The right tariff rate fixes all of this. You want access to our marketplace with good produced outside of it? Pay for that access! Unfortunately, that marketplace is a shadow of what it once was, and if we don't fix it damn soon... it will be too late.

 

[10mmMarc]

NAFTA = North Americas Future Traded Away

 

[steveh_131]

The question is, is part of deregulation free trade initiatives and removed tariffs? You can't expect American workers to compete with workers from nations where they have no modern conveniences and live in dirt floor huts.... unless you want that to become the standard of living for Americans as well.

I think it is a fallacy that purchasing cheap menial labor from overseas equates to lower living standards here.

Do we believe in liberty or don't we? Tariffs are not liberty. If I want to purchase a product from overseas, why should I be restricted from doing so?

Tariffs are just more Big Government. The same Big Government that got us into this mess to begin with. No thank you.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Exactly what fantasy world have you been living in for your entire life where every single business and corporation in the nation wasn't more concerned with profits and dividends than the 'good of the many'?

This is human nature. You can't fight it. You can't stop it. Business owners bust their butts to make money, not because they want to contribute to the community.

What you're proposing is that we continue to take a dump on American businesses with our onerous taxes and regulations and union leg-breakers - but then want to DOUBLE punish these companies for going somewhere that doesn't dump on them. All that will accomplish is to continue artificially inflating our cost of living and our currency, causing this vicious cycle to continue.

But sure, go ahead and blame 'my way of thinking' for all of this.

Henry Ford disagreed with you. He was all about making money, but also understood that he couldn't sell product if the worker couldn't afford to buy it. That is the problem that this turns on. The workers who will be making the product cannot afford to buy it, and soon enough the average American will not be able to afford to buy it. That means Carrier (among others) goes bankrupt.

 

[AA&E]

Henry Ford disagreed with you. He was all about making money, but also understood that he couldn't sell product if the worker couldn't afford to buy it. That is the problem that this turns on. The workers who will be making the product cannot afford to buy it, and soon enough the average American will not be able to afford to buy it. That means Carrier (among others) goes bankrupt.

Fortunately, I do not believe people that oppose your (and mine) point of view are the majority. These people have just been disproportionately represented by corporate whores in DC for decades. The pendulum is swinging away from this control.

 

[steveh_131]

Henry Ford disagreed with you. He was all about making money, but also understood that he couldn't sell product if the worker couldn't afford to buy it. That is the problem that this turns on. The workers who will be making the product cannot afford to buy it, and soon enough the average American will not be able to afford to buy it. That means Carrier (among others) goes bankrupt.

A single man can disagree with me. A macro-economic system can not. Businesses exist to maximize profit. End of story. Shaming them isn't going to change it. Big Government isn't going to change it.

All that we can do is embrace an economic system that leverages this into the creation of wealth: Free Market Capitalism.

Government's role in a free market is to enforce voluntary contracts and protect property rights. We need to scale it back to that role again if we want to see our economy spring back to life.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

There is only one entity that can solve this problem. The entity that created it - Big Government.

I agree with everything you said, but I'm not sure about that part.

Just because Big Government created the problem, doesn't mean Big Government has the ability to solve it. Sure it can, theoretically, but can it in reality? Not so sure.

 

[steveh_131]

I agree with everything you said, but I'm not sure about that part.

Just because Big Government created the problem, doesn't mean Big Government has the ability to solve it. Sure it can, theoretically, but can it in reality? Not so sure.

Man, I really phrased that poorly.

Big Government can't solve it, except by becoming Small Government.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Man, I really phrased that poorly.

Big Government can't solve it, except by becoming Small Government.

I'd even say it "more different".

Big Government can't solve it, except by being forcefully changed into Small Government. (I still don't like the suggestion that Big Government would or could willingly do it.)

 

[steveh_131]

Even better.

 

[IndyDave1776]

A single man can disagree with me. A macro-economic system can not. Businesses exist to maximize profit. End of story. Shaming them isn't going to change it. Big Government isn't going to change it.

All that we can do is embrace an economic system that leverages this into the creation of wealth: Free Market Capitalism.

Government's role in a free market is to enforce voluntary contracts and protect property rights. We need to scale it back to that role again if we want to see our economy spring back to life.

In theory I would agree, but you are failing to account for a major paradigm shift. Our past performance was based on a closed system, not one in which outsiders could undercut domestic labor by fantastic margins leading to widespread unemployment, yet the sale of the goods still depending largely on the domestic workers who no longer have jobs, hence no longer have money. We have moved from buying from savings, to paying as we go, to buying with debt, to the present in which we are approaching the outer limits on the ability to buy with debt and have any hope of ever paying the bill. That model is simply not sustainable and will come to a grinding halt. Henry was representative of a time in which businessmen made decisions based on long-term returns, not sating thirst by cutting their own throats to drink their own blood while it lasts.

 

[steveh_131]

In theory I would agree, but you are failing to account for a major paradigm shift. Our past performance was based on a closed system, not one in which outsiders could undercut domestic labor by fantastic margins leading to widespread unemployment, yet the sale of the goods still depending largely on the domestic workers who no longer have jobs, hence no longer have money. We have moved from buying from savings, to paying as we go, to buying with debt, to the present in which we are approaching the outer limits on the ability to buy with debt and have any hope of ever paying the bill. That model is simply not sustainable and will come to a grinding halt. Henry was representative of a time in which businessmen made decisions based on long-term returns, not sating thirst by cutting their own throats to drink their own blood while it lasts.

Maybe it will come to a grinding halt, leading to a correction. Such is life.

I just hope that you aren't suggesting more Government to solve this problem.

 

[cobber]

In theory I would agree, but you are failing to account for a major paradigm shift. Our past performance was based on a closed system, not one in which outsiders could undercut domestic labor by fantastic margins leading to widespread unemployment, yet the sale of the goods still depending largely on the domestic workers who no longer have jobs, hence no longer have money. We have moved from buying from savings, to paying as we go, to buying with debt, to the present in which we are approaching the outer limits on the ability to buy with debt and have any hope of ever paying the bill. That model is simply not sustainable and will come to a grinding halt. Henry was representative of a time in which businessmen made decisions based on long-term returns, not sating thirst by cutting their own throats to drink their own blood while it lasts.

Substitute tariffs for income taxes?


At some point our government is going to do a currency 'reform' and call in all the greenbacks for monopoly money...

 

[churchmouse]

Substitute tariffs for income taxes?


At some point our government is going to do a currency 'reform' and call in all the greenbacks for monopoly money...

Or go paperless.

 

[cobber]

Or go paperless.

You're probably right. All of your wealth digital, and controlled by the banks/Fed...

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Or go paperless.

http://www.marke****ch.com/story/why-larry-summers-wants-to-take-away-the-100-bill-2016-02-16p

How so? It’s easier for criminals and terrorists to move lots of cash illicitly in large bills.

That also means it's easier for you to cash out your retirement accounts and take your money somewhere.