Beer Virus V

[Ingomike]

I think the only reason for the philosophical argument is what would we do if the virus had presymptomatic spread and a 20% mortality rate? How would our arguments change?

They would change a lot. Many bought into the precautions (think flatten the curve) precisely because of the 2-3 million dead projections. This has not lived up to the hype and the results have been mismanagement killing the elderly and the usurpation of freedoms. Now like the boy that cried wolf if a real killer virus comes along they have squandered cooperation...

 

[nonobaddog]

New Zealand kept everybody out for the most part.

That has been a key factor in their avoidance.
The residents of many countries, including US, are not allowed in to NZ. Returning NZ residents have to show recent negative test results and do quarantine on arrival.
This does not seem sustainable to me, but maybe they can make it work for them.

 

[BugI02]

I agree with Rooster that, epidemiologically speaking, when dealing with a highly contagious respiratory virus it makes a lot more sense to lock down after 1 case than it does once you have seeded it in multiple places.

New Zealand kept everybody out for the most part. But outside of their lockdown periods they had no cases, almost no deaths, no expensive healthcare output and yet had no other restrictions. They were "normal" for most of the pandemc with no masks or attendance limits (or so I'm told by the few people I know there). Legally, we in the US could attend restaurants and conventions and sporting events for most of the past year. But all of those things suffered economically because a lot of people and businesses didn't want to take the risk.

The New Zealand residents that I know were happy with the protocol overall but then very unhappy that vaccine rollout was delayed. The vaccine was a real chance for them to benefit from what they did before.

People I know who retired to NW Michigan also express the belief that Whitmer was 'protecting them' when she capriciously restricted their freedoms, too

Stockholm syndrome

In any case this never would have worked in the US so it's a moot point to argue whether it's worth it. I think the only reason for the philosophical argument is what would we do if the virus had presymptomatic spread and a 20% mortality rate? How would our arguments change?

Hypotheticals. 'If frogs had wings ...'

'How will our arguments change' when it becomes inescapably apparent that it is no worse than the flu with a somewhat higher mortality rate among the old, unfit or immunocompromised

 

[foszoe]

People I know who retired to NW Michigan also express the belief that Whitmer was 'protecting them' when she capriciously restricted their freedoms, too

Stockholm syndrome

Hypotheticals. 'If frogs had wings ...'

'How will our arguments change' when it becomes inescapably apparent that it is no worse than the flu with a somewhat higher mortality rate among the old, unfit or immunocompromised

If Trump was in power X wouldn't have happened....is that a hypothetical?

 

[bwframe]

COVID contact tracing information of nearly 750K Hoosiers improperly accessed - Indianapolis Business Journal

The data included names, addresses, email addresses, gender identification, ethnicity and race information, and dates of birth. The state said no medical information was accessed.

www.ibj.com

 

[BugI02]

If Trump was in power X wouldn't have happened....is that a hypothetical?

Not really. We had 4 years to see what Trump could deliver and we've had 7 months to see what is happening under Biden, and NONE of what is happening under Biden would have happened under Trump

 

[jsx1043]

If Trump was in power X wouldn't have happened....is that a hypothetical?

I the think the more apropos statement would be that if Clinton had won, none of this would have happened. It’s more likely than not that IF this was a legit spontaneous illness, they wouldn’t have overblown everything about it and it would’ve been swine flu 2.0.

I also don’t think that there’s any coincidence that it:

generated out of wet market

accidentally escaped from a lab

was released from a lab

conveniently just after a couple of years of coronavirus pandemic simulations, with public predictions being made that one would occur, with the gubmint providing funding for said research, while “vaccine” candidates were sent to the guy who created the spike protein, with people writing books about it, all before there was actually a case of covid.

Rule #39.

 

[dusty88]

People I know who retired to NW Michigan also express the belief that Whitmer was 'protecting them' when she capriciously restricted their freedoms, too

Stockholm syndrome

Hypotheticals. 'If frogs had wings ...'

'How will our arguments change' when it becomes inescapably apparent that it is no worse than the flu with a somewhat higher mortality rate among the old, unfit or immunocompromised

I'm asking the question because some people say the government shouldn't have the power to enact restrictions over an infectious disease.


My position is that infectious disease outbreaks are a rare time where there can be a conflict of personal rights. It's also the only time I can think of where my position is that it's a matter of degree, severity, etc

 

[rooster]

My position is that infectious disease outbreaks are a rare time where there can be a conflict of personal rights. It's also the only time I can think of where my position is that it's a matter of degree, severity, etc

If done correctly, is it really a personal rights issue to tell everyone to take a 3 day “staycation”?. Lost Wages (in full) should be compensated by the government if the government institutes a lockdown.

“hey everyone take a long 3 day weekend and please don’t leave home unless you need to go get food or meds”

sounds a lot different than

“don’t leave a 5km bubble around your home until we say otherwise, don’t go to the beach again....ever. And if you want a new bedroom partner then you must register with the new gov app. Oh ya and don’t mind the roving cops checking you papers and the roadblock checkpoints. You will get used to them.”

 

[actaeon277]

When it's SO IMPORTANT to put those restrictions out, but the people that make the rules DON'T FOLLOW THEM, it's got nothing to do with safety.

 

[BugI02]

I'm asking the question because some people say the government shouldn't have the power to enact restrictions over an infectious disease.


My position is that infectious disease outbreaks are a rare time where there can be a conflict of personal rights. It's also the only time I can think of where my position is that it's a matter of degree, severity, etc

The government has absolutely burnt down its credibility. I would need to see people dying in the streets before I would believe anything from a gov't source about the next pandemic. So even a MERS-like CFR would not move me without reliable proof. If they are still censoring any and all dissenting opinions, I do not believe it will not go well for them

 

[BugI02]

When it's SO IMPORTANT to put those restrictions out, but the people that make the rules DON'T FOLLOW THEM, it's got nothing to do with safety.

 

[actaeon277]

View attachment 153604

I have been right before, from time to time.


But it just burns me up everyone saying how important it is, and how "We're all in the same boat".
Well, it can't be too important because those that make the rules are routinely breaking those rules.
And some people are in rowboats taking on water, while others are in yahts worrying about the next shipment of wine.

 

[dusty88]

When it's SO IMPORTANT to put those restrictions out, but the people that make the rules DON'T FOLLOW THEM, it's got nothing to do with safety.

When they make everyone else follow the rules, they reduce the overall disease risk and privilege themselves to be the few to take advantage of that.
For a different example, Abbott in Texas is going so far as to prevent businesses to control their own environment. If a bar wants to just have vaccinated patrons, they can lose their liquor license

Meanwhile he just took Regeneron for a Covid exposure even though he is already vaccinated. This would lead one to think he is more concerned about the virus than his public policies suggest.

 

[rhamersley]

I have been right before, from time to time.


But it just burns me up everyone saying how important it is, and how "We're all in the same boat".
Well, it can't be too important because those that make the rules are routinely breaking those rules.
And some people are in rowboats taking on water, while others are in yahts worrying about the next shipment of wine.

 

[actaeon277]

When they make everyone else follow the rules, they reduce the overall disease risk and privilege themselves to be the few to take advantage of that.
For a different example, Abbott in Texas is going so far as to prevent businesses to control their own environment. If a bar wants to just have vaccinated patrons, they can lose their liquor license

Meanwhile he just took Regeneron for a Covid exposure even though he is already vaccinated. This would lead one to think he is more concerned about the virus than his public policies suggest.

But he's not stopping people from being vaccinated.

 

[Tombs]

When they make everyone else follow the rules, they reduce the overall disease risk and privilege themselves to be the few to take advantage of that.
For a different example, Abbott in Texas is going so far as to prevent businesses to control their own environment. If a bar wants to just have vaccinated patrons, they can lose their liquor license

Meanwhile he just took Regeneron for a Covid exposure even though he is already vaccinated. This would lead one to think he is more concerned about the virus than his public policies suggest.

So you'd be okay with a "No Blacks" sign on a business, I'm assuming?
Because that's quite literally what "vaccinated only" means, if you dig into statistics.

 

[bwframe]

Indiana school district goes online after just 2 weeks of in-person classes

Nearly 20 percent of the students district-wide have tested positive for COVID-19 or are in quarantine.

www.wthr.com

 

[jsx1043]

Indiana school district goes online after just 2 weeks of in-person classes

Nearly 20 percent of the students district-wide have tested positive for COVID-19 or are in quarantine.

www.wthr.com

I give K-12 schools three weeks, universities a month, tops.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Indiana school district goes online after just 2 weeks of in-person classes

Nearly 20 percent of the students district-wide have tested positive for COVID-19 or are in quarantine.

www.wthr.com

I'd like to know just what % of that 20% tested positive and what % are in quarantine.