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    dudley0

    Nobody Important
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    99   0   0
    Mar 19, 2010
    3,881
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    Grant County
    It's not the sources. It's the misinterpretation of data and misleading headlines.




    Hospitalizations: Israel is a highly vaccinated country, especially in its vulnerable population. You need to know what % of fully vaccinated people are hospitalized and compare that to the % of unvaccinated people that are hospitalized.

    A small % of a large number can be a bigger number than a large % of a small number.

    This is usually called rate base bias.

    Imagine a total population of 100 people. Imagine 85% of that population is vaccinated.
    Imagine that there are 20 cases in the hospital and half of those are vaccinated.
    That means you have 20 severe cases of COVID-19, 10 among the vaccinated (of which there are 85) and 10 among the unvaccinated (of which there are 15).
    That means that there’s an 11% hospitalization rate among vaccinated folks and a 66% hospitalization rate among unvaccinated folks. Vaccinated folks are still far far far far far far far less likely to be hospitalized than unvaccinated folks, despite being “50% of total hospitalizations” because of a rate base bias where the base number of vaccinated people is substantially higher than the base number of unvaccinated.

    This should actually be calculated by age group and other susceptibilities, and then the difference becomes even greater because the highly susceptible generally have a higher vaccination rate.

    Regardless the hospitalization rate for the vaccinated remains well below the unvaccinated in every state or country I have seen reported, even before you break it down by age.
    I am not an anti-vax type. I get a flu shot yearly. I know that sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. I also know that the vaccine has been tested more than this new one for C-19.

    The worry is more what the shot will do long term that keeps me away from it. I still feel it was pushed out too fast.

    With that being said I will now read the article you linked. Maybe someone can ease my mind about this, but right now that is where I stand.
     

    printcraft

    INGO Clown
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    16   0   0
    Feb 14, 2008
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    Uranus
    Australia has gone full totalitarian with the lockdowns.

    as of today;
    5km radius you can go from your home. The government wants everyone who is single to sign up and register “buddy” as their government authorized an approved sexual partner that person must live inside of their 5 km bubble Police don’t seem to mind the new authority.

    All this because they had 4 deaths. Three of those were above 70 and one was in his 50s








    Yikes.

    Add that spider/shark infested place to my worldwide ******** list.
     

    jsx1043

    Grandmaster
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    53   0   0
    Apr 9, 2008
    5,149
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    Napghanistan
    Australia has gone full totalitarian with the lockdowns.

    as of today;
    5km radius you can go from your home. The government wants everyone who is single to sign up and register “buddy” as their government authorized an approved sexual partner that person must live inside of their 5 km bubble Police don’t seem to mind the new authority.

    All this because they had 4 deaths. Three of those were above 70 and one was in his 50s






    In the words of my dad, “That makes me so damned mad I can’t even see straight.”
     

    ghuns

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    2   0   0
    Nov 22, 2011
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    Our son in KC told the wife last Wednesday he thought he had a cold. Told her Thursday he felt like he'd hit by a truck. Friday he told her he was surely dying. It was all I could do to keep her from making the 10 hour drive to be by his bedside. Saturday his normal 6 mile run was done at a walking pace. Sunday he ran it as usual. Pretty sure he's gonna pull through.:rolleyes:
     

    rhamersley

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Jan 9, 2016
    4,225
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    Danville
    Our son in KC told the wife last Wednesday he thought he had a cold. Told her Thursday he felt like he'd hit by a truck. Friday he told her he was surely dying. It was all I could do to keep her from making the 10 hour drive to be by his bedside. Saturday his normal 6 mile run was done at a walking pace. Sunday he ran it as usual. Pretty sure he's gonna pull through.:rolleyes:
    1629125898329.png
     

    BigRed

    Banned More Than You
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    7   0   0
    Dec 29, 2017
    20,943
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    1,000 yards out
    Australia has gone full totalitarian with the lockdowns.

    as of today;
    5km radius you can go from your home. The government wants everyone who is single to sign up and register “buddy” as their government authorized an approved sexual partner that person must live inside of their 5 km bubble Police don’t seem to mind the new authority.

    All this because they had 4 deaths. Three of those were above 70 and one was in his 50s








    **** these ********.

    This is why you hold onto your arms.
     

    rooster

    Master
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    10   0   0
    Mar 4, 2010
    3,306
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    Indianapolis
    **** these ********.

    This is why you hold onto your arms.
    While I agree let’s play this out (for educational purposes, mods let me know if this is outa line, not trying to be)

    cop shows up at the door and says you are going to a detention center.
    couple options
    1.You tell him to f*** off and slam the door. He calls more jackbooted thugs and eventually they get 6-10 of them there and break down the door and haul you away in cuff.
    2. You go with peaceably and hope that you regain your freedom legally and get to continue your pre detainment life with your wife and kids and white picket fence post “lockdown”
    3. You resist successfully, your a wanted man, you have to go on the run with your family. You lose your house, your job, basically whatever life you had before. Hopefully you know a trade and can make a cash living somewhere else, maybe another country but regardless you are a man on the run

    none of those options look great. Unfortunately this is the reality. We know for a fact this is the reality that the Jews faced in the 1930’s with the nazis and in other countries with pograms happeneding.

    We thought it might never happen again but here we are in 2021 with our life liberty and pursuit of happiness being threatened.
     

    BigRed

    Banned More Than You
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    7   0   0
    Dec 29, 2017
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    1,000 yards out
    While I agree let’s play this out (for educational purposes, mods let me know if this is outa line, not trying to be)

    cop shows up at the door and says you are going to a detention center.
    couple options
    1.You tell him to f*** off and slam the door. He calls more jackbooted thugs and eventually they get 6-10 of them there and break down the door and haul you away in cuff.
    2. You go with peaceably and hope that you regain your freedom legally and get to continue your pre detainment life with your wife and kids and white picket fence post “lockdown”
    3. You resist successfully, your a wanted man, you have to go on the run with your family. You lose your house, your job, basically whatever life you had before. Hopefully you know a trade and can make a cash living somewhere else, maybe another country but regardless you are a man on the run

    none of those options look great. Unfortunately this is the reality. We know for a fact this is the reality that the Jews faced in the 1930’s with the nazis and in other countries with pograms happeneding.

    We thought it might never happen again but here we are in 2021 with our life liberty and pursuit of happiness being threatened.


    I am trying to recall. What was the reward for the Jews in Germany?
     

    ghuns

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    2   0   0
    Nov 22, 2011
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    rooster

    Master
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    Mar 4, 2010
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    Unpopular opinion:

    A hard lockdown like this might make sense for an island nation like New Zealand as long as a couple things arent undermining the whole thing.
    1. absolutely must not have any undocumented immigrants coming in without testing/isolation. Need an Elis island 2.0 really and need to stop international travel as much as possible.
    2. People gotta get paid for not working those days, otherwise compliance is gonna be low.
    3. they can’t call everyone “essential”, calling everyone essential was just a way to not be liable if a bunch of people got sick at work

    this is totally different from Australia, they seem to be conditioning their people to live in a totalitarian police state.

    covid is way overblown though. Never gonna go away.
     

    rooster

    Master
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    10   0   0
    Mar 4, 2010
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    So, following the Democrat playbook, they just took the gloves off too soon?
    I sense the snark but I’m gonna answer as if this was meant to be answered.

    New Zealand’s lockdown makes sense scientifically. No one leaves home unless absolutely necessary for only a few day. that gives time to contact trace and for anyone who might have been exposed to show symptoms.

    Australia wants everyone to keep working and going about normal life (inside of a 5km bubble) but if you get covid nothing changes other than you get dragged off to a detention camp.of and if you wanna sleep with someone new you have to register with .gov.

    Australia seems to be following the dem playbook pretty lockstep. New Zealand is still a few years behind. They just had their big “gun turn in” event last year. Still a lot of guns floating around.
     

    HoughMade

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Oct 24, 2012
    36,203
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    Valparaiso
    Word on the street is that the Indiana Court of Appeals has ruled that the state can end enhanced unemployment benefits. Looking for the decision.

    [ETA]

    Here it is, all 16 pages of it:


    Very long story short, the court found that Indiana law does not require the state to participate in the CARES Act programs. This is kinda obvious, but politics rules the day at the trial court.
     
    Last edited:

    nonobaddog

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Mar 10, 2015
    12,216
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    Tropical Minnesota
    Unpopular opinion:

    A hard lockdown like this might make sense for an island nation like New Zealand as long as a couple things arent undermining the whole thing.
    1. absolutely must not have any undocumented immigrants coming in without testing/isolation. Need an Elis island 2.0 really and need to stop international travel as much as possible.
    2. People gotta get paid for not working those days, otherwise compliance is gonna be low.
    3. they can’t call everyone “essential”, calling everyone essential was just a way to not be liable if a bunch of people got sick at work

    this is totally different from Australia, they seem to be conditioning their people to live in a totalitarian police state.

    covid is way overblown though. Never gonna go away.
    It seems New Zealand has done an outstanding job at avoidance. But avoidance is really a delaying tactic. Without these crippling lockdowns it is just a matter of time until the virus gets a foothold. They still need an endgame. Maybe their strategy is to delay until somebody else develops a good endgame, like finally allowing use of ivermectin or something else yet to be developed.
     

    dusty88

    Master
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    2   0   0
    Aug 11, 2014
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    It seems New Zealand has done an outstanding job at avoidance. But avoidance is really a delaying tactic. Without these crippling lockdowns it is just a matter of time until the virus gets a foothold. They still need an endgame. Maybe their strategy is to delay until somebody else develops a good endgame, like finally allowing use of ivermectin or something else yet to be developed.
    I agree with Rooster that, epidemiologically speaking, when dealing with a highly contagious respiratory virus it makes a lot more sense to lock down after 1 case than it does once you have seeded it in multiple places.

    New Zealand kept everybody out for the most part. But outside of their lockdown periods they had no cases, almost no deaths, no expensive healthcare output and yet had no other restrictions. They were "normal" for most of the pandemc with no masks or attendance limits (or so I'm told by the few people I know there). Legally, we in the US could attend restaurants and conventions and sporting events for most of the past year. But all of those things suffered economically because a lot of people and businesses didn't want to take the risk.

    The New Zealand residents that I know were happy with the protocol overall but then very unhappy that vaccine rollout was delayed. The vaccine was a real chance for them to benefit from what they did before.

    In any case this never would have worked in the US so it's a moot point to argue whether it's worth it. I think the only reason for the philosophical argument is what would we do if the virus had presymptomatic spread and a 20% mortality rate? How would our arguments change?
     
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