Another "victimless crime"

[Alpo]

What's your point, Alpo? I've asked you two different ways, we'll call this a third.

Jesus wants his disciples to care for the poor. That is blatantly obvious. Next you're going to tell me it's dark outside in Indiana.

The point?

OK. What if you are wrong in your belief?

Perhaps you ARE your brother's keeper. I read the stories of the NT and I see that in Luke. The good Samaritan. The Prodigal Son. I see that in Matthew in the Beatitudes.

I see many gripes in this forum about behaviors that are set against the instructions of the Bible, yet here I see the same people willing to disregard what I perceive to be the clearest message. How do you reconcile that with your views? I can't.

 

[ATM]

No. He fancies himself an apprentice of ATM, but he's doing it all wrong.

CHUM CHUM ...CHUM CHUM

 

[Woobie]

The point?

OK. What if you are wrong in your belief?

Perhaps you ARE your brother's keeper. I read the stories of the NT and I see that in Luke. The good Samaritan. The Prodigal Son. I see that in Matthew in the Beatitudes.

I see many gripes in this forum about behaviors that are set against the instructions of the Bible, yet here I see the same people willing to disregard what I perceive to be the clearest message. How do you reconcile that with your views? I can't.

Show me how this is not reconciled with my belief. Of course Christ's disciples are taught to care for the poor, hungry, naked, widowed, orphaned and imprisoned. What about that is inconsistent with what I have said?

 

[Alpo]

Well, you 'inserted' yourself into the discussion with GFGT, so it is his comments on the matter that I speak to, with a friendly comment your way since you've decided to support his position. But it is his reference to biblical that started this sidebar.

You comment that taxation is confiscation. I say: Pfffft. 16th Amendment

You don't like the way your tax dollars are spent. I say: representative democracy. You voted. Elections have consequences.

Someone says: decriminalize drug use. I say: Drug use is not a victimless crime. Period.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Over half of the patients I see in our "trauma" rooms are overdoses. A few years ago they were actually medical ill people. Now they're overdoses. They fill up our trauma rooms so when the bad car accidents come in they are not see in the trauma rooms

and for the record, we need to prosecute heroin dealers for manslaughter if it can be proven their sale led to a death. Maybe reckless homicide. Something. They are bastards killing people for profit.

 

[ATM]

Alpo may actually be maneuvering to set up his own INGO Argument Match right here.

Developing nicely.

 

[Woobie]

Well, you 'inserted' yourself into the discussion with GFGT, so it is his comments on the matter that I speak to, with a friendly comment your way since you've decided to support his position. But it is his reference to biblical that started this sidebar.

You comment that taxation is confiscation. I say: Pfffft. 16th Amendment

You don't like the way your tax dollars are spent. I say: representative democracy. You voted. Elections have consequences.

Someone says: decriminalize drug use. I say: Drug use is not a victimless crime. Period.

So basically you've got nothin'. You've been responding to me for a while, so don't pretend you weren't talking to me. You can't show me how my view of decriminalization conflicts with Jesus' teachings that you brought into the argument as some kind of massive "gotcha". You can't show me in principle how the war on drugs is helping, so you resort to tired old arguments that have no bearing on the discussion. Of course elections have consequences. As a society we need to decide what sound policy is and influence the next election. Finally, on this giant cake of fail you've baked up, you spread the icing of a silly catch phrase. Please. Make an argument or give up.

 

[churchmouse]

 

[Woobie]

Alpo may actually be maneuvering to set up his own INGO Argument Match right here.

Developing nicely.

He would have to make an argument to be in an argument.

 

[Woobie]

Over half of the patients I see in our "trauma" rooms are overdoses. A few years ago they were actually medical ill people. Now they're overdoses. They fill up our trauma rooms so when the bad car accidents come in they are not see in the trauma rooms

and for the record, we need to prosecute heroin dealers for manslaughter if it can be proven their sale led to a death. Maybe reckless homicide. Something. They are bastards killing people for profit.

Now here we go! We could prosecute someone for an actual crime. If you mis-represent a dangerous product, that is an aggression. If you get someone addicted to something they no longer want, but still crave, that could be an aggression.

This is progress. Punishment for directly hurting someone. Much different than the status quo.

 

[ATM]

He would have to make an argument to be in an argument.

Oh, I think he's gonna get creamed ...but that's what makes these things so enticing and lures people in.

 

[femurphy77]

WOW! Gettin' a lot of mileage out of this one aren't we?

 

[ATM]

...and for the record, we need to prosecute heroin dealers for manslaughter if it can be proven their sale led to a death. Maybe reckless homicide. Something. They are bastards killing people for profit.

Um... no. Vices are not crimes. If you know you're buying heroin from them, we couldn't even charge them with fraud - regardless of any crimes committed under the influence of the product you purchased from them.

 

[churchmouse]

Well.....at least we jumped past the carrot juice thing.

 

[ATM]

Well.....at least we jumped past the carrot juice thing.

For now.

 

[Woobie]

Um... no. Vices are not crimes. If you know you're buying heroin from them, we couldn't even charge them with fraud - regardless of any crimes committed under the influence of the product you purchased from them.

I think it depends. If someone slips you something at a party and says "try this", you're stupid for trying it and not doing some due diligence. But I'm willing to bet it gets misrepresented a fair amount. If you don't tell the truth about what your product is and what it could do to a customer, then there could be some culpability in there.

Let's say the bartender told you the effects of alcohol on judgement were over-rated. And once he gets you good and lit, he tells you as he hands you a to go cup not to worry about driving home, that you'll be fine. Now we might see that as lunacy, and that the effects of alcohol are well-known. But someone else may view that bartender as an expert on alcohol, and take his word for it. Furthermore, since the most dangerous ideas come while you are in an altered mental state, I think he shares in the responsibility for what you do to yourself or others at that point.

I see an addict as someone in an altered mental state. And if you help someone who is not in full control of their minds hurt themselves, you bear some of the responsibility for what happens to them.

 

[Woobie]

Well.....at least we jumped past the carrot juice thing.

If you've got some coffee that will melt steel, I'm game right now.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

 

[Woobie]

WOW! Gettin' a lot of mileage out of this one aren't we?

Sometimes you have to be patient. There is a lot of emotion involved, and it can take a while for folks to settle down and reason. Some never do. They either give up or keep spouting nonsense. Then you've got to deal with what people "know", but can't tell you why or how. That takes a while. But it's like hunting. It isn't about the kill. It's the process that is enjoyable.

 

[ATM]

If you've got some coffee that will melt steel, I'm game right now.

Coffee doesn't need to melt steel, only weaken it.

I once caused 3 steel thermoses to collapse and only two of them contained any coffee.