Allow police to have proper tools to determine who the real outlaws are

[churchmouse]

Did you guys not read the story that the OP linked too? It was talking about how to find the outlaw. Let me clue you in. It's not the OCers that are the outlaws. The outlaws are the one CCing. Am I the only one that sees purple there

Ah....purple....I missed the purple.

 

[lonehoosier]

REALLY.....I must have somehow missed this first time through the thread or my idiocy alarm would not let me read it.....

I and my entire family are now officially outlaws. We are not aware that CC made us outlaws. I think (hope) I get what you are saying but, well, uh, er, duh.......................
.

Really because that's what these thread is making me out to be, because I OC at the bus stop. How does that feel?

 

[Bunnykid68]

Only if they are using them at the time.

I would call that OU - Openly Using

 

[churchmouse]

Really because that's what these thread is making me out to be, because I OC at the bus stop. How does that feel?

Do as you will. It is your decision to use the rights afforded you. Just know that sometimes we have to put up with some Bravo Sierra based on our decisions. I am never un-armed. You just do not know it


You are most likely well known at that stop. A familiar face expected to be seen. Just like my mug when I show up to get the G-daughter from school.

 

[actaeon277]

I think the "only criminals CC guns" comment was in response to a "Display some common sense please. Just cover it up. " comment, or "he will be confronted by this CC'er. He better not try to tell me about his "rights"." comment. But I could be wrong.

I've known lonehoosier for a bit, and he doesn't seem to be displaying for his "ego" or even to make a point.
He just wears his pistol, like a pair of pants.
When his character was impugned, he just made a counter statement.

But then again, I may be wrong. I often am.

 

[churchmouse]

I think the "only criminals CC guns" comment was in response to a "Display some common sense please. Just cover it up. " comment, or "he will be confronted by this CC'er. He better not try to tell me about his "rights"." comment. But I could be wrong.

I've known lonehoosier for a bit, and he doesn't seem to be displaying for his "ego" or even to make a point.
He just wears his pistol, like a pair of pants.
When his character was impugned, he just made a counter statement.

But then again, I may be wrong. I often am.

I get the the point.

 

[Trigger Time]

I seen a woman's boob pop out of her night gown at the bus stop once. It was ****ing awesome! I was rewarded for making the trip.

 

[actaeon277]

You are really an innocent aren't you? Not a criticism, just an observation.

Yes, I am an innocent.
That's why I never had to climb into multiple bottles of Bacardi 151.
And why I can stand the smell of pennies.

Since I have no desire to climb into the bottle, I have no desire to explain either statement.

 

[actaeon277]

I seen a woman's boob pop out of her night gown at the bus stop once. It was ****ing awesome! I was rewarded for making the trip.

I need to find out where your bus stops are. Nothing like that happens here.

 

[IndyTom]

Not bus related, but I took my kids out for some food this evening and 6 Fishers PD walked in (followed shortly thereafter by 2 more). My little one wasn't at all concerned by the number of guns, tasers and flashlights on display, but she did tell me that she learned in school (the police apparently stop in fairly frequently to talk with the students) that only police officers can carry guns openly like that. I took that as a chance to discuss the fact that I could actually do the same with the appropriate license. She took that in, went back to eating and was about as interested in their guns as the fries she was working on.

I don't think that I know too many kids who would be concerned by seeing someone OC. Then again, it isn't like they've been exposed to a rampant criminal element using them to hurt people.

 

[Trigger Time]

Not bus related, but I took my kids out for some food this evening and 6 Fishers PD walked in (followed shortly thereafter by 2 more). My little one wasn't at all concerned by the number of guns, tasers and flashlights on display, but she did tell me that she learned in school (the police apparently stop in fairly frequently to talk with the students) that only police officers can carry guns openly like that. I took that as a chance to discuss the fact that I could actually do the same with the appropriate license. She took that in, went back to eating and was about as interested in their guns as the fries she was working on.

I don't think that I know too many kids who would be concerned by seeing someone OC. Then again, it isn't like they've been exposed to a rampant criminal element using them to hurt people.

yeah mines been telling me they have one or two that pop in and like to talk to the kids or at least be there. My kid knows not to talk to the police and not to blindly trust them or anyone else.

 

[Hammerhead]

Ok, slough, since you brought up the hypothetical mwag at a bus stop, I'll add in a couple more variables.

I OC on occasion when walking my child to the bus stop. However I stand across the road from the stop, on my own property, wave at the bus driver, and wait until he drives down the road before returning into my house. I typically don't carry my Larry on me at these times. You want da polizei to come by and hassle me on my own property about my papers?

Or how about this. The kids at the stop all stand on property owned by a neighbor of mine that I'm fairly good friends with who has no issue with me carrying on his lawn, in his house, etc. Let me cross the road and go stand on his property OCing. You want da polizei stopping by and hassling me there?

Ok, let's drop the idea of mwag calls. Let's just look at the OC guy standing out and watching to make sure that the kids are safe because he cares. You yourself stated that you were responsible for the protection of the kids on the bus and that the parents were responsible for the kids not yet on the bus. Then you argue that the OCing parent (or other person) is a problem. You can't have it both ways.

Tell me as another parent in any manner you wish to cover my sidearm, and I'll tell you to pound sand. My method of carry is NOYDB. Tell the cops to come hassle me as an OCer because you saw my sidearm while driving, and I'll tell them to pound sand. Not only is my method of carry NOTDB, but if they persist, then Guy is just a phone call away.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I just don't see a threat form a holster sidearm. On a side not, maybe this gentleman was ignorant of the law and thought he could not stand with he's kids at the bus stop and that's why he was by himself across the street.

It's a huge threat and should not be tolerated! Likewise, a man with functioning testicles is a rape hazard therefore all should be immediately castrated along with having all firearms confiscated!

 

[45 LongColt]

Schools have stuck their noses in the private lives of people way too much. Kids get suspended nowdays for pointing their fingers like a gun. Even when they are off school property. Now the school BUS drivers are trying to. Keep your noses on your own faces, and LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE! If you see a crime being done, than get on your little radios and call it in. Otherwise, drive your bus and get over it. You are not cops, you are not the protector of mankind, you are not an OC inspector. You are a bus driver, just do your job, drive the kids to school.

 

[jbombelli]

There is no reason to open carry near a school bus stop. Children do not understand and are easily frightened. Why would anyone subject a child to their ego.

What if the school bus stop is between me and the place I'm going? I'm not going to change what I'm doing just because I happen to be passing by a school bus stop. The weakness and stupidity their parents instilled in those kids is not my problem.

 

[Rhoadmar]

What if the school bus stop is between me and the place I'm going? I'm not going to change what I'm doing just because I happen to be passing by a school bus stop. The weakness and stupidity their parents instilled in those kids is not my problem.

Excellent observation.

 

[looney2ns]

Schools have stuck their noses in the private lives of people way too much. Kids get suspended nowdays for pointing their fingers like a gun. Even when they are off school property. Now the school BUS drivers are trying to. Keep your noses on your own faces, and LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE! If you see a crime being done, than get on your little radios and call it in. Otherwise, drive your bus and get over it. You are not cops, you are not the protector of mankind, you are not an OC inspector. You are a bus driver, just do your job, drive the kids to school.

 

[SteveM4A1]

A lot of good points being made.

 

[Dirtebiker]

My paranoia (situational awareness) has kept me alive as a soldier, bomb disposal tech, police officer and a few other titles, to reach my age of 62.

If your child is ever in my charge, they will be as well protected as they can be. I can assure you of that. I also understand nothing is perfect.

I am not sure why the vitriol. Calm down.

i just ask that you think the scenario through from all sides as presented by the OP.

I really would like your opinion on what YOU would do if you were driving a school bus and observed an individual armed that was standing off from the group at the bus stop. Would you make a normal stop or just drive on?

I maintain that I would drive on and err on the side of caution.

So, are you saying you would leave the kids at the bus stop, with this strange and dangerous individual?

 

[sloughfoot]

So, are you saying you would leave the kids at the bus stop, with this strange and dangerous individual?

Yes sir I would. My responsibility is the safety of the kids on the bus. At the bus stop, they are still the parent's responsibility. I am not a Police Officer ready to save the world. But my district's policy is quite clear on what I should do if I perceive a threat at a bus stop. I did not create the policy, but it also makes sense to me.

I did not create this scenario that we are discussing. The OP brought it up and referred to a newspaper article as part of his OP.

I responded with a point of view, that maybe some had not considered, and apparently some feel quite emotional about. That strong emotional response by itself is troubling. But somewhere in my previous posts, I mentioned that it is a fact that domestic disputes can and do happen at bus stops and elsewhere, that emotions are high and many times the adults involved are not thinking or acting rationally. That many times physical violence occurs during divorces and custody disputes.

I am a substitute bus driver. I work maybe twice a month on different routes. The regular driver may see the guy with the gun standing off to the side and know that he is "Johnny's" dad and he always stands like that. Because of my background and experience, I may perceive something totally different on the day that I am driving the route because the regular driver is sick.

Nobody is harmed if I just drive on until it can be checked out.

I have not seen a response from anybody who thinks that I should pick up THEIR kid and later in the route just ignore things that might not seem right and just go ahead and make the stop thereby possibly putting THEIR kids in danger.

Everybody has defended THEIR right to be visibly armed. You are also defending the angry parent who feels that he is getting screwed over in a custody dispute? Again, instead of attacking me perhaps you should think it all the way through.

You must admit that not everybody is the calm rational person that all of you gun carriers are, that have been ripping me since I posted my thoughts on this issue.

On Monday the 7th, I will be working a route for the first time this school year. If I see anything notable, I will post it here. I doubt that I will see anything out of the ordinary. Most people are reasonable people and just smile and wave. Guns are rarely, if ever, seen. We all just want to get the little precious darlings to school and back home again.