Allow police to have proper tools to determine who the real outlaws are

[sloughfoot]

Also what makes bus drivers more special than us parents that your able to break the law and carry a firearm and I'm not?

I know of bus drivers who are retired policemen. It is totally legal for them to carry. It is against school district policy however.

I never said that I carry. Only that your children would be as well protected as I could manage if they are on my bus.

If I perceived a threat, I would drive on and not make the stop.

I really don't understand the vitriol.

 

[actaeon277]

I think I would observe, the same as I do any other time I observe a citizen carrying.
And I'm betting somewhere on this forum, we have previous or present soldiers, bomb disposal, police, and a few other titles.
Maybe even some medics, doctors, lawyers, nurses, teachers, and a few other things.

When you basically accuse all others of being dangerous, gee I wonder why the vitriol.

 

[Trigger Time]

Ok now you mentioned standing off from the group. That's a red flag yes.
im all for situational awareness. I have crafted my life and that of my family around situational awareness. And some would call certain things paranoia until it saves our lives one day possibly.
As far as "calming down", no worries, I don't disagree with you or dislike you on a personal level, I just don't see eye to eye with you on the statements you've made. Your attitude seems elitist to me. Just disagreements over issues. I'd still hake your hand in real life and buy you lunch. I don't agree with my own wife all the time. But I believe in arguing my beliefs, and opinions. I've done things in my life too that makes me more aware than others, but I don't believe I have more rights than they

 

[actaeon277]

Go ahead, drive on.
Then calls would be made to the school.
If it was policy, then threats of Guy Relford being hired would be made, then followed up on, for breaking state law by the school.

 

[MikeDVB]

So tell me, I pick up your precious children at your house where you are OC'ing. You and I are cool because we know each other. You go back into your house after we wave at each other.

Two stops later, there is some guy OC'ing at the bus stop who I don't know. What would you like me to do to protect YOUR children on my bus?

I'd expect you to do your job and pick up the kids. If there really is a threatening person standing at the stop with a gun - how is leaving them there alone with such a person going to help? If they wanted to shoot you or the kids on your bus - their bullet is going to travel far faster than your bus can. Anybody intending to do you or anybody on your bus harm is not likely to be standing there with a gun in a holster.

Now if they're standing there with a gun in their hand I could see getting away from them as quickly as possible. While having it in your and is not, in and of itself, illegal - it is highly suspicious and gives merit to heightened awareness or complete avoidance if possible.

Again - if they want on your bus and they have a gun - chances are they're getting on your bus.

Think about it please.

Just did.

You guys are not thinking this all the way through to the logical conclusion. You guys are assuming that you are each individually "good guys" and everybody knows this. What should the person who doesn't see that you are "good guys" do?

I'm thinking it perfectly logically. I'm not saying bad guys don't use holsters [I'm sure at least 1 does so I can't say none do] but I don't know of any and have never heard of any.

I have to say that if somebody was planning on perpetrating some criminal act on kids on the bus - they'd likely not be standing there with a firearm in plain view. To put it into another situation - if you plan on robbing a bank are you going to walk in the door holding the gun in your hand or are you going to try and surprise them?

It seems that to you - anybody but yourself with a visible gun is a bad guy. The really sad part is that while you're looking for people with a gun - the one that really does intend harm is going to be hiding their firearm or weapon until they're ready to use it.

Maybe the regular driver has sat at your kitchen table and is cool with you. He gets sick or his mother dies or he is still drunk from the night before and he calls for a sub to run his route? What is the sub to do when he sees somebody visibly armed at the bus stop?

I would expect him to do his job. By the time he sees the gun - if that person intends harm - they're going to do harm.

You aren't going to outrun a bullet.

This whole thread is about school bus stops with somebody's innocent kids at stake. Keep that in mind.

I'm around small children every day with my firearm and it hasn't yet jumped out of it's holster and shot somebody all on it's own. The innocence of the children is just a smoke screen to deflect your mistrust of anybody you don't know with a firearm.

"For the children." Right... That's what our 'great leader' keeps telling us while trying to infringe upon our rights.

If I have YOUR kids on my bus and as I approach a bus stop I see someone is standing there with a gun on the hip.

I would expect you to do your job - and pick up my kid and take him to school. If this individual at the stop intends to harm my child - they do not need to be on a school bus for it to happen. They could easily use said firearm maliciously long before you arrived.

 

[sloughfoot]

School district policy is very clear and sensible. I am responsible for the safety of the kids ON THE BUS. The kids that have not yet boarded the bus are the responsibility of their parents. if I choose not to stop because of a MWAG, it is up to the parents to take corrective action.

If it is not safe to stop, as determined by me, I don't stop. Could be weather, road conditions, MWAG, solar storms, riots in the streets, bus running rough.

You don't agree. I don't care. And my school district will back me 100%

read the newspaper article again and every post up to this one. You won't find any fault with my logic or my decisions based on the scenario as presented by the OP.

 

[actaeon277]

 

[actaeon277]

 

[actaeon277]

sloughfoot

 

[actaeon277]

School district policy is very clear and sensible. I am responsible for the safety of the kids ON THE BUS. The kids that have not yet boarded the bus are the responsibility of their parents.

If it is not safe to stop, as determined by me, I don't stop. Could be weather, road conditions, MWAG, solar storms, riots in the streets, bus running rough.

You don't agree. I don't care. And my school district will back me 100%

Till they pay 3 times lawyer's fees.
You would have to prove the danger.

you can not claim you wouldn't stop the bus because there was a jewish man there. Being jewish is not against the law.

Neither is OC, by itself.

 

[sloughfoot]

Till they pay 3 times lawyer's fees.
You would have to prove the danger.

you can not claim you wouldn't stop the bus because there was a jewish man there. Being jewish is not against the law.

Neither is OC, by itself.

WTF are you talking about? Go to your school district's transportation dept and show them the newspaper aritcle that the OP posted. Get their response regarding the perception of danger and the driver's response to that perception.

They will say that it is always far better to err on the side of student safety. Danger does not have to be proven. The perception of danger just has to be articulated.

And always remember that the student that has not yet boarded the bus is not the responsibility of the school district.

You are really an innocent aren't you? Not a criticism, just an observation.

 

[rgrimm01]

So is it all that uncommon for parents to be hanging back while giving their children space and keeping an eye on them while waiting for a virtual stranger(after all, the individual parent has not vetted this person) to pick them up and transport to school? Sounds like another legal activity, armed or not.

 

[sloughfoot]

So is it all that uncommon for parents to be hanging back while giving their children space and keeping an eye on them while waiting for a virtual stranger(after all, the individual parent has not vetted this person) to pick them up and transport to school? Sounds like another legal activity, armed or not.

read the article again that is the basis of this thread. Please.

Also please be aware that bus drivers meet individually with parents on their route to become acquanted with them and to spell out expectations from both parents and drivers long before school starts. Many bus drivers haul generations of famiies kids. They have hauled the High school senior for the 12th year and his kindergarten little sister in the same year. Do you get this? Do you really understand the emotional involvement of this?

And yes, if need be, I would drive right by the stop if I thought the kids on the bus might be in danger if I stopped.

Can you imagine being invited to the wedding of a little girl who you have hauled to school since she was in kindergarten?

At least in my school district. Lots of vetting goes around before and during the school year. you guys just don't understand or realize how personal the school bus business is.

We know the kids and the parents and grandparents and daycare facilities and they know us. They know where we live. They know our phone numbers. We know theirs. We are in constant communication.

We have common goals. If someone shows up with a gun at a school bus stop that we don't expect, it is a notable event. (we might have even made a plan for the possibility) I have no problem with the Dad who says he will be at the stop with his OC.

But he and I are aware that the most steady neighbor might go off the deep end under one of life's stresses..... We hope to be ready for anything.

I don't know how it is in the big city schools

 

[rgrimm01]

Ok, I read the story again and am satisfied that my reading comprehension was in fact turned on and firing on all cylinders.

According to the story, it is not unusual for parents to be at or near the bus stop and the gentleman, who was also a parent, was standing off. I would imagine the child was thankful for this consideration as it may very well have been a compromise with the child to accept his presence. It might also be that he was standing off because he did not want to interact with the busybodies.

Legal activity...

It would have caught my attention as well. I would have positioned myself in such a way that I could have kept an eye on him until such a time that I was convinced that he had no ill intention. As a first reaction, I would not confront him for a legal activity or try to make him change his behavior to be "more legal" so that I may be more at ease.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I too would like to know about this ".9mm handgun".

This guy appears to be holding what could be a ".9mm handgun"... although I suspect it's really a ".045 caliber handgun"...

 

[Trigger Time]

Unless someone has a gun in their HAND, then I'm not overly concerned .

 

[churchmouse]

Also what makes bus drivers more special than us parents that your able to break the law and carry a firearm and I'm not?

How many of us do it any way....hands....HHhmmmmmm

Again, no knock just saying, we (most of us) roll the dice every day.

 

[JetGirl]

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

OK- I see sloughfoot's point - but only to a point - Anyone noticed carrying SHOULD raise the driver's situational awareness level a notch. If for no other reason than it's not that common to see - despite what we would like. ANYTHING unusual should raise the situational awareness level! That _in and of itself_ should not necessarily prompt a "go around" and a radio call. Combine that with strange behavior to one degree or another - and it might. As for me - just standing off a bit and OC'ing would definitely get you noticed and I'd be ready to act (drive off, run your arse over, whatever - fight or flight). But it would take more strange behavior - hand on weapon, nervousness, eyes darting around - stuff like that, before I would hit the "go around" button. Nothing wrong with OCing at all. But if you think that OC + odd behavior shouldn't get you noticed - you are living in a fantasy world as well. Oh and the "reporter" is an idiot. If you are going to gripe about the law - do us all the courtesy of understanding it correctly first.

 

[Bunnykid68]

My paranoia (situational awareness) has kept me alive as a soldier, bomb disposal tech, police officer and a few other titles, to reach my age of 62.

If your child is ever in my charge, they will be as well protected as they can be. I can assure you of that. I also understand nothing is perfect.

I am not sure why the vitriol. Calm down.

i just ask that you think the scenario through from all sides as presented by the OP.

I really would like your opinion on what YOU would do if you were driving a school bus and observed an individual armed that was standing off from the group at the bus stop. Would you make a normal stop or just drive on?

I maintain that I would drive on and err on the side of caution.

You would drive on and leave all those poor defenseless kids with an obviously armed dangerous gunman?