Active shooter situation at school in Parkland, FL; reports of victims

[churchmouse]

That was what was refreshing about Dana Loesch's performance during that townhall ambush. She doesn't get shouted down.

She had that Sheriff on the ropes.

 

[Kutnupe14]

That was what was refreshing about Dana Loesch's performance during that townhall ambush. She doesn't get shouted down.

Dana Loesch and her appeal to "crying white mothers are ratings gold" fame? Refreshing.

 

[churchmouse]

Dana Loesch and her appeal to "crying white mothers are ratings gold" fame? Refreshing.

KUT....she spoke the absolute truth.

Did you not stick around for the follow up on that statement.....Where are the town halls for all the crying black mothers.
I truly believe she is sincere. I have listened to her show enough.

 

[2A_Tom]

So more and more and more is coming out on this.
I am waiting for more than a few apology's to the NRA and associated 2A advocate groups/people.

Yeah thats not gonna happen.

For a moment there I thought you were having a psychotic break.

 

[2A_Tom]

Dana worked for the DNC before the effects of the wore off.

She was a flaming liberal feminist... until she had a son and grew a brain.

 

[T.Lex]

All I ever see is shout downs. Name calling. Labels etc. Never anything solid as what should be done. They have nothing solid.
...

Wait.

Which side?

Right now douche nozzle is making snarky tweets towards the president about avoiding the draft.

As if he would ever survive boot. Ever.

I would agree with churchmouse that there was no way that snotty douche would make it through basic. I don't think surviving the shooting would make any difference at all.

If anything the emotional experience of that day probably renders him incapable of dealing with the topic in a rational way. But the left isn't looking for rational. Their bread and butter is irrational emotions.

Vanity, thy name is INGO.

 

[churchmouse]

Wait.

Which side?









Vanity, thy name is INGO.

These were not used in the same context as what I was referring to my friend. Not at all. We were not shouting someone down at a town hall or belittling a left thinker on FB.
Apples and oranges here. I hope you see the diff.

 

[T.Lex]

These were not used in the same context as what I was referring to my friend. Not at all. We were not shouting someone down at a town hall or belittling a left thinker on FB.
Apples and oranges here. I hope you see the diff.

I don't. But that's ok.

This is an emotional issue.

I'll just single out one assertion (divorced from the author, whom I respect GREATLY): the kid survived a shooting but that doesn't make him an expert on gun violence.

Ok.

Let's play that dismissive attitude out. What makes INGOers gun violence experts? Proficiency with firearms? Well, that may make us collectively better at dishing out gun violence, but it is an awkward qualifier to have an opinion on the topic.

My point is that the name calling and irrational dismissiveness from OUR SIDE works against us. Even in the safe space confines of INGO.

The kid and the other kid - heck, ALL of the kids - are objectively sympathetic spokespeople. "Normal" people connect with them at a human level. When gun rights advocates engage in name-calling, labeling, and general marginalizing of them, it is doomed to backfire in the real world.

Sure, venting on a gun forum is a low-risk proposition for this.

But that's why people like me are here, to hold up a little bit of a mirror.

 

[Woobie]

I don't. But that's ok.

This is an emotional issue.

I'll just single out one assertion (divorced from the author, whom I respect GREATLY): the kid survived a shooting but that doesn't make him an expert on gun violence.

Ok.

Let's play that dismissive attitude out. What makes INGOers gun violence experts? Proficiency with firearms? Well, that may make us collectively better at dishing out gun violence, but it is an awkward qualifier to have an opinion on the topic.

My point is that the name calling and irrational dismissiveness from OUR SIDE works against us. Even in the safe space confines of INGO.

The kid and the other kid - heck, ALL of the kids - are objectively sympathetic spokespeople. "Normal" people connect with them at a human level. When gun rights advocates engage in name-calling, labeling, and general marginalizing of them, it is doomed to backfire in the real world.

Sure, venting on a gun forum is a low-risk proposition for this.

But that's why people like me are here, to hold up a little bit of a mirror.

So the better way to say it would be: "suffering as a victim in a school shooting does not give you any special insight into stopping one." Or "there are good solutions to these issues and bad solutions. And there are things that aren't solutions at all. These positions should be weighed on merit regardless of who supports them."

 

[wtburnette]

Or the fact that surviving such an incident doesn't reflect on your ability to pass military basic training or make you an expert on guns, gun violence or anything similar. No more so than surviving a bear attack makes you an expert on bears.

 

[Expat]

But that's why people like me are here, to hold up a little bit of a mirror.

Huh, so you think of yourself as sort of the conscience of INGO?

 

[Birds Away]

I don't. But that's ok.

This is an emotional issue.

I'll just single out one assertion (divorced from the author, whom I respect GREATLY): the kid survived a shooting but that doesn't make him an expert on gun violence.

Ok.

Let's play that dismissive attitude out. What makes INGOers gun violence experts? Proficiency with firearms? Well, that may make us collectively better at dishing out gun violence, but it is an awkward qualifier to have an opinion on the topic.

My point is that the name calling and irrational dismissiveness from OUR SIDE works against us. Even in the safe space confines of INGO.

The kid and the other kid - heck, ALL of the kids - are objectively sympathetic spokespeople. "Normal" people connect with them at a human level. When gun rights advocates engage in name-calling, labeling, and general marginalizing of them, it is doomed to backfire in the real world.

Sure, venting on a gun forum is a low-risk proposition for this.

But that's why people like me are here, to hold up a little bit of a mirror.

I'm pretty sure that I said I feel sorry for the kid having to go through that. I absolutely do. Children shouldn't have to experience such things. I am very sympathetic to their situation. But, as an adult, I also have to put their emotional response into perspective. No, gun owners are not gun violence experts. But having more knowledge of what makes a gun deadly than the general population does give us insight into what might or might not be effective in curtailing this violence. It isn't, IMO, dismissive to put a person's reaction/response into perspective.

 

[churchmouse]

I don't. But that's ok.

This is an emotional issue.

I'll just single out one assertion (divorced from the author, whom I respect GREATLY): the kid survived a shooting but that doesn't make him an expert on gun violence.

Ok.

Let's play that dismissive attitude out. What makes INGOers gun violence experts? Proficiency with firearms? Well, that may make us collectively better at dishing out gun violence, but it is an awkward qualifier to have an opinion on the topic.

My point is that the name calling and irrational dismissiveness from OUR SIDE works against us. Even in the safe space confines of INGO.

The kid and the other kid - heck, ALL of the kids - are objectively sympathetic spokespeople. "Normal" people connect with them at a human level. When gun rights advocates engage in name-calling, labeling, and general marginalizing of them, it is doomed to backfire in the real world.

Sure, venting on a gun forum is a low-risk proposition for this.

But that's why people like me are here, to hold up a little bit of a mirror.

Mirrors aside I will say once again......stating these things among ourselves in here is far different that the out in the open shout downs.
The actions at the town hall come to mind as one of the most recent. This is a far cry from what we are doing.

Yes, most emotional. After getting repeatedly beat down every time some nut job (that has slipped through the system they so desperately wanted) goes head first of the edge it is most emotional. I grow weary of the names/labels and outright attacks. Yes I refer to them as left leaning libs etc but only as the discussion digresses. It is hard to hold the line. Very hard. Especially when the serious "Choke this idiot out before it reproduces" reflex jumps out.

 

[2A_Tom]

Huh, so you think of yourself as sort of the conscience of INGO?

He and a couple of others seem to take that upon themselves occasionally.

I must add that on occasion I have asked someone to calm down.

Pot/Kettle

 

[T.Lex]

Or the fact that surviving such an incident doesn't reflect on your ability to pass military basic training or make you an expert on guns, gun violence or anything similar. No more so than surviving a bear attack makes you an expert on bears.

I don't think anyone is claiming the kid is an expert. He and those others bring a perspective that we don't have. Well, VERY few of us outside LE have been in that situation.

They have the spotlight for legitimate reasons. We may not like what they say, but to name-call/label/marginalize is going to be a problem.

To Woobie's point, our interests are served by as unemotionally as possible focusing the discussion - and the language - on substance.

Huh, so you think of yourself as sort of the conscience of INGO?

He and a couple of others seem to take that upon themselves occasionally.

Its a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

Sometimes it feels like its me; sometimes it is others. Mostly it is Salma.

Mirrors aside I will say once again......stating these things among ourselves in here is far different that the out in the open shout downs.
The actions at the town hall come to mind as one of the most recent. This is a far cry from what we are doing.

Yes, most emotional. After getting repeatedly beat down every time some nut job (that has slipped through the system they so desperately wanted) goes head first of the edge it is most emotional. I grow weary of the names/labels and outright attacks. Yes I refer to them as left leaning libs etc but only as the discussion digresses. It is hard to hold the line. Very hard. Especially when the serious "Choke this idiot out before it reproduces" reflex jumps out.

And if the goal is to win the war, not just an isolated battle, is it helpful to be viewed as violent thugs?

 

[churchmouse]

I don't think anyone is claiming the kid is an expert. He and those others bring a perspective that we don't have. Well, VERY few of us outside LE have been in that situation.

They have the spotlight for legitimate reasons. We may not like what they say, but to name-call/label/marginalize is going to be a problem.

To Woobie's point, our interests are served by as unemotionally as possible focusing the discussion - and the language - on substance.




Its a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

Sometimes it feels like its me; sometimes it is others. Mostly it is Salma.


And if the goal is to win the war, not just an isolated battle, is it helpful to be viewed as violent thugs?

OK........read my post. Who save for us is viewing us this way. Aside from the occasion visitor browsing the sight, I would not be this person in an open twn hall debate. That is my point of reference.
And yes, be the better person of course.

Crap....here I go again....arguing with a lawyer.....

 

[T.Lex]

OK........read my post. Who save for us is viewing us this way. Aside from the occasion visitor browsing the sight, I would not be this person in an open twn hall debate. That is my point of reference.
And yes, be the better person of course.

Crap....here I go again....arguing with a lawyer.....

This isn't an argument (although we can debate that, if you want). This is a discussion, IMHO.

I think it is self-deceptive to suggest that all of INGO would speak this way "among us" and not also echo these labels in real life. For you, I take you at your word. Venting one's spleen here in order to put a brave face on "out there" makes sense.

Do you really think that applies to all who've posted such things?

 

[wtburnette]

I don't think anyone is claiming the kid is an expert. He and those others bring a perspective that we don't have. Well, VERY few of us outside LE have been in that situation.

They have the spotlight for legitimate reasons. We may not like what they say, but to name-call/label/marginalize is going to be a problem.

As has been said, I'm very happy for everyone who survived this tragedy, I just wish they used this opportunity to speak for something that would actually make a difference. Whining about gun control will do nothing. Even if it caused something to be done, like banning AR-15 style rifles, it will have done nothing to fix the problem. I'd much rather hear those kids go on TV and ask questions about mental health issues in our country and how to identify and do something about such things. Maybe also talk about how simple it was for this person to get into a school with a weapon. Why should he have been able to get into the school at all while it was in session? Those are things that are actually important and could cause some real change on this issue, not discussing things that have little to do with the problem.

 

[2A_Tom]

Sometimes it feels like Salma.

Tell us please, what Salma feels like, PLEASE.

And if the goal is to win the war, not just an isolated battle, is it helpful to be viewed as violent thugs?

Really, violent thugs? That is a strong accusation. Please post links or retract that statement.

 

[churchmouse]

This isn't an argument (although we can debate that, if you want). This is a discussion, IMHO.

I think it is self-deceptive to suggest that all of INGO would speak this way "among us" and not also echo these labels in real life. For you, I take you at your word. Venting one's spleen here in order to put a brave face on "out there" makes sense.

Do you really think that applies to all who've posted such things?

No and again I was in self reference. It is all about me after all.....