Active shooter situation at school in Parkland, FL; reports of victims

[Woobie]

I've been called worse. By better.

That literally hurt. I laughed out loud, which is a bad idea right now.

 

[indiucky]

Dana Loesch and her appeal to "crying white mothers are ratings gold" fame? Refreshing.

Kut she was spot on with that comment.....I don't see racism everywhere but when I see it I call it out.....Murdered white women from the suburbs sells ads and revenue is what they are looking for....A murdered woman story can have legs and go on for weeks...Especially if they are pretty, wealthy, white legs....

There is a great scene in the film Nightcrawler where Rene Russo's character admits as much....

I am paraphrasing...

"We get murdered women in East L.A. and South Central on a daily basis....That doesn't sell...White woman killed in an expensive neighborhood???? That's a story with legs..."

A very good movie...You'd dig it....

[video=youtube;X8kYDQan8bw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8kYDQan8bw[/video]

 

[Birds Away]

You can't take this away!

Lets just say when they cut out your appendix, the plumbers go on strike. The 6 day strike has been lifted, much to my relief.

Truly glad to hear it. I'm sure that victory isn't really all that small.

 

[T.Lex]

For the record, while I know you're very intelligent, I never thought you were being condescending.... that means to talk down to.

Why you.... I'm not talking to you until you see Black Panther.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Kut she was spot on with that comment.....I don't see racism everywhere but when I see it I call it out.....Murdered white women from the suburbs sells ads and revenue is what they are looking for....A murdered woman story can have legs and go on for weeks...Especially if they are pretty, wealthy, white legs....

You don't really think that, do you? I don't think most people agree with Loesch's statement.

 

[churchmouse]

You don't really think that, do you? I don't think most people agree with Loesch's statement.

Everyone I know does. Look at the entire comment KUT. She was on the side of those left out. And those left out were..............The crying for their lost kids black mothers. It is really to easy. And I totally agree.

 

[T.Lex]

You don't really think that, do you? I don't think most people agree with Loesch's statement.

Actually, I think you know it is true, too.

Think of the tragedies that get the spotlight because they happen in Carmel.

First one that comes to mind is Leann Serrano (can't remember her married name). Her screenwriter husband killed her. Gee, a domestic abuse murder makes the news? Not if it is in Indy. Or Anderson. Or Marion.

Even without the dead body angle, if something happens (cough hazing cough) it's far more likely to make the news if it happens in Carmel, Fishers or Zionsville.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Actually, I think you know it is true, too.

Think of the tragedies that get the spotlight because they happen in Carmel.

First one that comes to mind is Leann Serrano (can't remember her married name). Her screenwriter husband killed her. Gee, a domestic abuse murder makes the news? Not if it is in Indy. Or Anderson. Or Marion.

Even without the dead body angle, if something happens (cough hazing cough) it's far more likely to make the news if it happens in Carmel, Fishers or Zionsville.

I think I'm dealing with the very confined INGO POV.

 

[KMaC]

Soft but with a sternness that is compliant at the same time....

Is that like salty but sweet?

 

[Birds Away]

Not sure how this could even be argued. Of course it's true.

 

[T.Lex]

Not sure how this could even be argued. Of course it's true.

Welcome to INGO. You must be new here.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Not sure how this could even be argued. Of course it's true.

Salty but sweet?

 

[Birds Away]

Salty but sweet?

Um, no.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Um, no.

The convo just prior then?

 

[indiucky]

You don't really think that, do you? I don't think most people agree with Loesch's statement.

I do Kut....Sadly I do...It bothers me..I see it in our local news coverage in Louisville all of the time....I read a book written by a former CBS news producer (the name of the book escapes me...) and he stated this goes on....

Gwen Ifill originated this phrase....."Missing White Woman Syndrome"....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

Missing white woman syndrome is a phrase used by social scientists[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP] and media commentators to describe the extensive media coverage, especially in television, of missing person cases involving young, white, upper middle classwomen or girls.[SUP][4][/SUP] Instances have been cited in the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom and South Africa.[SUP][5][/SUP] The phenomenon is defined as the media's undue focus on upper-middle-class white women who disappear, with the disproportionate degree of coverage they receive being compared to cases of missing men, or women of color and of lower social classes.[SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP] Although the term was coined to describe disproportionate coverage of missing person cases, it is sometimes used to describe the disparity in news coverage of other violent crimes.
PBS news anchor Gwen Ifill was said to be the originator of the phrase.[SUP][7][/SUP] Charlton McIlwain, a professor at New York University, defines the syndrome as white women perpetually occupying a privileged role as violent crime victims in news media reporting, and concludes that missing white woman syndrome functions as a type of racial hierarchy in the cultural imagery of the West.[SUP][8][/SUP] Professor Eduardo Bonilla-Silva categorizes the racial component of missing white woman syndrome as a form of racial grammar, through which white supremacy is normalized by implicit or even invisible standards.[SUP][1][/SUP]
Missing white woman syndrome has led to a number of right-wing tough on crime measures that were named for white women who disappeared and were subsequently found harmed.[SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][10][/SUP] Moody, Dorris and Blackwell (2008)[SUP][11][/SUP] concluded that in addition to race and class, factors such as supposed attractiveness, body size and youthfulness function as unfair criteria in the determination of newsworthiness in coverage of missing women. Also noteworthy was that news coverage of missing black women was more likely to focus on the victim’s baggage, such as abusive boyfriends or a troubled past, while coverage of white women tends to focus on their roles as mothers or daughters.[SUP][12][/SUP]

With regard to missing children, statistical research which compares national media reports with FBI data shows that there is marked under-representation of African American children in media reports relative to non-African American children. A subsequent study found that girls from minority groups were the most under-represented in these missing-children news reports by a very large margin.[SUP][13][/SUP]
Zach Sommers, a sociologist at Northwestern University, noted that while there is a sizable body of research that shows that white people are more likely than people of color to appear in news coverage as victims of violent crime there is relatively little when it comes to missing persons cases.[SUP][1][/SUP] In 2013, Sommers cross-referenced the missing persons coverage of four national and local media outlets against the FBI's missing persons database. Sommers found black people received disproportionately less coverage than whites and men received disproportionately less coverage than women; Sommers could not directly assess the number of missing white women in the FBI files due to how the data was structured but concluded that there was circumstantial—although not statistically conclusive—evidence that white women received disproportionate coverage.[SUP][14][/SUP][SUP][1][/SUP] In the same study, professor Eduardo Bonilla-Silva elucidated that the subtle standard of placing a premium on white lives in the news helps to maintain and reinforce a racial hierarchy with whites at the top. For example, black women are members of both a marginalized racial group and a marginalized gender group.[SUP][1][/SUP] Crucially, though, black women have an “intersectional experience [that] is greater than the sum of racism and sexism.” In other words, like white women, black women are subject to sexism, but the form of that sexism differs for black women because of the compounding effects of racial discrimination; with missing white woman syndrome being a pertinent manifestation of this social phenomenon.[SUP][14][/SUP][SUP][1][/SUP] Sociologists note that the tone of media coverage for black female victims differs markedly from coverage of white female victims in that the former are more likely to be blamed for purportedly putting themselves in harm’s way, either knowingly or unknowingly. Victim blaming in this context reinforces the notion that black female victims are not only less innocent, but also less worthy of rescue relative to white women.[SUP][1][/SUP] Other observers note the lack of publicity given to black female victims of police brutality in news coverage, attributing the silence to a tradition of “sexism and patriarchy” in American society.[SUP][1][/SUP]
A report that aired on CNN noted the differences between the level of media coverage given to Caucasian women like Laci Peterson and Natalee Holloway, who disappeared in 2002 and 2005 respectively, and LaToyia Figueroa, a pregnant Black/Hispanic woman. Figueroa disappeared in Philadelphia the same year Holloway disappeared. Figueroa and her unborn daughter were found murdered.[SUP][15][/SUP] The San Francisco Chronicle published an article detailing the disparity between the coverage of the Peterson case and that of Evelyn Hernandez, a Hispanic woman who was nine months pregnant when she disappeared in 2002.[SUP][16][/SUP]
Kym Pasqualini, president of the National Center for Missing Adults, observed that media outlets tend to focus on "damsels in distress" – typically, affluent young white women and teenagers.[SUP][17][/SUP]
Dr. Cory L. Armstrong wrote in the Washington Post that "the pattern of choosing only young, white, middle-class women for the full damsel treatment says a lot about a nation that likes to believe it has consigned race and class to irrelevance".[SUP][7][/SUP]

 

[Birds Away]

The convo just prior then?

Yes sir.

 

[indiucky]

Why you.... I'm not talking to you until you see Black Panther.

He's still not seen "Look Who's Back" yet either....Every six months I send him a reminder KNOWING the film is an obvious jab at Trump (and Populism in general) but it's a good film and Kut would appreciate it and see the parallels....

Maybe someday....(sigh)....

[video=youtube;Q4K0h3Bp_eY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4K0h3Bp_eY[/video]

Seriously watch it Kut...I am begging...

 

[BugI02]

I don't. But that's ok.

This is an emotional issue.

I'll just single out one assertion (divorced from the author, whom I respect GREATLY): the kid survived a shooting but that doesn't make him an expert on gun violence.

Ok.

Let's play that dismissive attitude out. What makes INGOers gun violence experts? Proficiency with firearms? Well, that may make us collectively better at dishing out gun violence, but it is an awkward qualifier to have an opinion on the topic.

My point is that the name calling and irrational dismissiveness from OUR SIDE works against us. Even in the safe space confines of INGO.

The kid and the other kid - heck, ALL of the kids - are objectively sympathetic spokespeople. "Normal" people connect with them at a human level. When gun rights advocates engage in name-calling, labeling, and general marginalizing of them, it is doomed to backfire in the real world.

Sure, venting on a gun forum is a low-risk proposition for this.

But that's why people like me are here, to hold up a little bit of a mirror.

Your continued belief in the existence of our better angels is charming, but perhaps undeserved

The "name-calling, labeling and general marginalizing" for me began with seeing these kids on TV claiming that any supporter of the NRA or anyone who doesn't want to see all "assault rifles" banned is complicit in the murders of the unlucky 17 and has blood on their hands

They are not seeking to engage with the opposite viewpoint on any factual basis, they are appealing almost purely to emotion. That they've been through an emotional event can help understand their willingness to be useful idiots but not excuse it. How close was the shooter to Hogg, actually? There were 3000 kids on that campus, if the shooter was half a campus away from Hogg I fail to see it as a potentially life changing, existential experience for him. How many of their acquaintances are likely to have been killed or injured - or injured others - texting while driving? But somehow I doubt they would be calling for cell phones to be made illegal and confiscated. Where is the acknowledgement that attempting to outlaw a class of firearms ex post facto would without doubt require confiscation, and how dangerous that attempt would likely be for civil society. Where is the acknowledgement that if you really, truly want to end drunken driving forever you would have to outlaw alcohol and actively police that decision because merely having a law that says you can't do it doesn't stop people intent on the behavior. Where is the acknowledgement that the same is true for this type of mass murder, that laws against certain weapons will not stop them from happening, that only the removal of almost all weapons and the active policing of a prohibition will have any chance of acheiving the results they say they want

If you want to play on the big boy stage, you should not rely on the empathy people have for your situation to be a shield you can hide behind for long and you should engage people in the arena of ideas and not emotion

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

 

[T.Lex]

The "name-calling, labeling and general marginalizing" for me began with seeing these kids on TV claiming that any supporter of the NRA or anyone who doesn't want to see all "assault rifles" banned is complicit in the murders of the unlucky 17 and has blood on their hands

Why is that a problem?

Is it no different than the oft-repeated charge on INGO that all of Islam is complicit in terrorism for not denouncing it strongly enough?

People should not take offense at being hoisted on their own petards.

They are not seeking to engage with the opposite viewpoint on any factual basis, they are appealing almost purely to emotion. That they've been through an emotional event can help understand their willingness to be useful idiots but not excuse it.

Says who? You?

Great.

Unfortunately, that's not how the court of public opinion works. They ARE victims. Right now, they ARE the arbiters of the debate.

I'm cautioning against the equal-and-opposite knee jerk reaction of name calling/labeling/marginalizing.

If you want to play on the big boy stage, you should not rely on the empathy people have for your situation to be a shield you can hide behind for long and you should engage people in the arena of ideas and not emotion

Let's leave Trump's election for a different thread, eh?

 

[MCgrease08]

Actually, I think you know it is true, too.

Think of the tragedies that get the spotlight because they happen in Carmel.

First one that comes to mind is Leann Serrano (can't remember her married name). Her screenwriter husband killed her. Gee, a domestic abuse murder makes the news? Not if it is in Indy. Or Anderson. Or Marion.

Even without the dead body angle, if something happens (cough hazing cough) it's far more likely to make the news if it happens in Carmel, Fishers or Zionsville.

[video=youtube_share;SNVj59B_sLE]http://youtu.be/SNVj59B_sLE[/video]