Active shooter situation at school in Parkland, FL; reports of victims

[NyleRN]

1 guy "compared to all the 2A donors?" Well I can't disagree, lol... but I don't think it is wise to dismiss him so easily.

Here's a profile of him from 2004:


Given his apparent influence, and in particular the state he resides, he doesn't seem light a guy to underestimate.

Apparently he's part of the problem then. I'll give only if I get exactly what I want. That's what needs to change in DC. I'd tell him to take his money and choke on it. If he wants change then be a man and come get them. Quit paying everyone else to do the dirty work. I'll be waiting for ya

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

Interesting point about the Second Amendment and the Bill of Rights. https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/A-Brief-Point-About-the-Second-Amendment-/5-2082469/

The Constitution, including the Bill of Rights, is a Natural Law document. It presumes the existence of rights antecedent to and independent of it own creation and existence. Take a look at the text of the 1st, 2d, 4th, and 9th Amendments. Each is cast in the negative. Each says that a right shall not be abridged, infringed, violated, or disparaged. None says "The people shall have the right . . . ."

What right does the 2dAm say shall not be infringed? The right of the people to keep and bear arms. Where does this right originate? It does not come from the Amendment; the Amendment presumes that it exists. If the right existed before the Amendment was ratified, the right can only have been regarded by the Framers as what is termed a "natural" right,* an inextinguishable incident of human existence.

The repeal of the 2dAm would not repeal the right to keep and bear arms. It might require us to use that right more emphatically than we have, but the right exists with or without the Amendment.

* Arguments about the existence of natural rights or the soundness of Natural Law doctrines are inapposite. What is relevant is the fact that the Framers accepted the existence of Natural Law and natural rights, and our Constitution specifically alludes to some natural rights, including the right to keep and bear arms.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

 

[HoughMade]

I'm going to rob a pharmacy next week.

Did I just commit a crime? No. I haven't robbed a pharmacy or attempted to rob a pharmacy. I've taken no substantial steps. Simply stating I'm going to and nothing else isn't a crime, isn't an attempted crime, and isn't conspiracy to commit a crime. If I threaten a specific person or people, I could potentially be committing Intimidation, but let's stick with the general "I'm going to do something evil".

Conspiracy to commit is both incredibly difficult to prove and, at least in Indiana, requires more than one person. You can't conspire with yourself.

Then there's the potential for Abandonment as a defense...

Also, to add in, we get intel briefs for officer safety fairly often of people who've threatened to kill police, posted it on social media, etc. Yet they aren't arrested. It's not that it isn't investigated or it's ignored, it's just that no crime was committed so the best you can do is watch them as best you can and be more careful.

I thoroughly agree that saying you're going to do something isn't a crime.

Here's where I'm in a knowledge deficit. How often do the types of the reports made in this case get made to the FBI? What are the protocols that they now say were not followed? What are their internal processes for following up if any, or winnowing out? I have no idea.

My remaining questions are whether simply going out to talk to people, the people making the report for instance. Looking into it. Talking to the subject if he is willing, checking out the situation a little more. No probable cause needed; no crimes to be charged. Is it possible to do? Could it have made a difference (as a case study) could it make a difference in the future? It's worth exploring? Even without a crime, mental health authorities, under the right circumstances, can get involved.

We should reject any notion that there is a cure, a 100% solution....but that's not the issue, at least not for me. For me, the issue is not perfection....it's better. Can we do better?

 

[bwframe]

BIG difference between robbing a pharmacy and murdering our kids.

Tough to imagine that anyone see's this as similar?

You do understand what an example is, yes? Simply saying you are going to do something illegal absent something else isn't a crime unless Intimidation or the like can be made...

I know what a good example is. Also what a good comparison is. There is no comparison of robbery to mass murder in this context.

 

[T.Lex]

I know what a good example is. Also what a good comparison is. There is no comparison of a robbery to murder.

There is a comparison of threatening to rob and threatening to murder.

Unless you think there isn't - which may be reasonable.

Should LEOs have greater opportunity to investigate threats to murder?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I know what a good example is. Also what a good comparison is. There is no comparison of robbery to mass murder in this context.

Legally...exact same. Morally, obviously different but you know I wasn't approaching it from a moral standpoint.

Feel free to show me the law that says otherwise.

 

[bwframe]

I know what a good example is. Also what a good comparison is. There is no comparison of robbery to mass murder in this context.

Legally...exact same. Morally, obviously different but you know I wasn't approaching it from a moral standpoint.

Feel free to show me the law that says otherwise.

Apparently, all the authorities in charge felt this way. See something, say something is useless...

This is why we have dead kids.


The left then are happy to blame it on the gun.

 

[T.Lex]

I think there is an important legal concept here regarding definitions of crimes. We probably could craft a law that treats threats of murder differently than threats of robbery (or anything else).

The real question is, would we want that?

ETA:
Would you, bwframe, be in favor of that?

Let's have that discussion.

 

[Dead Duck]

What if I mentioned something about "can't take it anymore" "they're too noisy" then mumbled "murder" and "kill them all" while walking out back with my shotgun.






Would I be arrested for hunting crow?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

There's a saying I like about engineering that's related to this. It's easier to engineer hard than it is to engineer easy.

I never heard that one before but it's absolutely true!

 

[HoughMade]

What if I mentioned something about "can't take it anymore" "they're too noisy" then mumbled "murder" and "kill them all" while walking out back with my shotgun.






Would I be arrested for hunting crow?

There's a lot of room for something to be done between "do nothing" and "arrest".

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Just saw a clip on TV with John Kasich talking about "god-darned" AR15s and how your 2A rights are not compromised if you can't buy one.

The knees are getting wobbly out there. The GOP is going to cave in on us soon, I'm afraid.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Just saw a clip on TV with John Kasich talking about "god-darned" AR15s and how your 2A rights are not compromised if you can't buy one.

The knees are getting wobbly out there. The GOP is going to cave in on us soon, I'm afraid.

The kids are planning a march on Washington next month.

 

[churchmouse]

It is not looking real good right now.

I wonder what the next big grab will be when some over the edge nutbag does this again with something different. I am sure they will not remember this current grab was a cure all.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Apparently, all the authorities in charge felt this way.

That we have to follow the laws and the Constitution? I sure hope so.

 

[NyleRN]

The kids are planning a march on Washington next month.

I'll listen to them when they can actually vote. Until then shut up and go to school. I don't need some snot nosed brat that can't vote influencing my politicians to tell me what I can and can't have.

 

[Birds Away]

I'll listen to them when they can actually vote. Until then shut up and go to school. I don't need some snot nosed brat that can't vote influencing my politicians to tell me what I can and can't have.

They are just pawns.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What if I mentioned something about "can't take it anymore" "they're too noisy" then mumbled "murder" and "kill them all" while walking out back with my shotgun.

It depends on the actual facts, what can be proven, etc. It'd be enough for an investigatory stop, but if there was enough for an arrest or immediate detention would vary.

 

[NyleRN]

They are just pawns.

You're right. The parents ought to know better. But "muh feelings"