Active shooter at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas...

[Vigilant]

Some speculation on the 2nd window being broke

Las Vegas Strip shooter targeted aviation fuel tanks, source says

Them tanks are pretty sturdy, API would probably be the only way to pierce them and cause any real problem. Or a much bigger gun!

 

[HoughMade]

Jet fuel ain't easy to ignite (think diesel or kerosene), and even gasoline doesn't usually light off from a bullet. There's a Mythbuster about this, I think.

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

Jet fuel ain't easy to ignite (think diesel or kerosene), and even gasoline doesn't usually light off from a bullet. There's a Mythbuster about this, I think.

There is. They busted the overused shooting a car gas tank myth. Vapors are the dangerous part of gasoline. A spark from the impact could potentially do it, but not usually.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Why?

It goes a better overall picture. If one is going to make comparisons, then you can't pick and choose how you want the information framed, and expect it to pass dedicated scrutiny.
If you're going to compare rifles, with hands/feet, knives/sharps, blunt objects in saying that the instances of others is more frequent than firearms, then I would scrutinize it like this: how many rifles are there, compared to hands/feet, knives/sharps, or blunt objects. You can be assured that people have multiples of each compared to rifles.... then you break down the number of those items compared to instances where they are used to her people. I obviously don't have the figures, but I think it's a fair bet, that in comparison to each groups pure numbers, rifles are probably used comparably, if not more, in relation to their numbers.
Don't get caught up with the comparisons. The right exists to protect oneself. Anything that hinders a law-abiding citizen's ability to protect themselves should be opposed. Laws that punish the law abiding, shouldn't be supported because of what might happen.

 

[SSGSAD]

I'd be careful about going there. While protection of the fetus's life is a valid concern, the right of a woman to control her own body also arguably has constitutional protections.

And the likely rebuttal to your argument is that there ARE a lot of restrictions on abortion and very few people support things like late-term abortions. I think you might find yourself in a trap if you make the comparison.

MY POINT, was that the 2 A, IS in the Constitution,

abortion, is NOT ..... with the exception, of using "other" amendments .....

 

[actaeon277]

It goes a better overall picture. If one is going to make comparisons, then you can't pick and choose how you want the information framed, and expect it to pass dedicated scrutiny.
If you're going to compare rifles, with hands/feet, knives/sharps, blunt objects in saying that the instances of others is more frequent than firearms, then I would scrutinize it like this: how many rifles are there, compared to hands/feet, knives/sharps, or blunt objects. You can be assured that people have multiples of each compared to rifles.... then you break down the number of those items compared to instances where they are used to her people. I obviously don't have the figures, but I think it's a fair bet, that in comparison to each groups pure numbers, rifles are probably used comparably, if not more, in relation to their numbers.
Don't get caught up with the comparisons. The right exists to protect oneself. Anything that hinders a law-abiding citizen's ability to protect themselves should be opposed. Laws that punish the law abiding, shouldn't be supported because of what might happen.

Unfortunately, citizens presently don't seem to care about the right to protect.

 

[JAL]

Jet fuel ain't easy to ignite (think diesel or kerosene), and even gasoline doesn't usually light off from a bullet. There's a Mythbuster about this, I think.

JPx is basically a type of kerosene with additives and additional processing. Civilian fuel designations may be slightly different, such as Jet A, Jet B, etc. You're correct, it's not that easy to ignite as it's not nearly as volatile or explosive as gasoline. Once ignited, however, it does burn hot. IIRC, military jet fuel has a higher flash point for what should be obvious considering the environment in which they're used. If you've been around it as I was in the military it has an odor that is similar but not identical to kerosene.

Gasoline stores when deployed always had me much more concerned than Diesel and JPx jet fuel. I've seen a diesel tank blow. It really wasn't an explosiion as much as it was a slowly expanding fireball. Those in its path were flash burned by it. I've seen the MythBusters show and yes, small arms projectiles . . . other than incindiary rounds . . . puncturing a fuel tank cannot ignite gasoline, Diesel or jet fuel. Requires hot enough spark or flame plus suffient O2. You won't get sparks from lead and copper, even impacting concrete and asphalt.

John

 

[actaeon277]

By the way, thanks to fellow INGOers that have joined in on my FB argument about swimming pools.
The woman arguing against "military style weapons" used to be an anti-gunner. She is now a gunner, but only understands the "need" for guns like hers.

And, she might be an ex-gf.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st..._t=like&notif_id=1507114546321983&ref=m_notif

 

[long coat]

How about shooting the tanks just to get them dumping fuel & have a small bomb of some type to get a fire going?

 

[JAL]

By the way, thanks to fellow INGOers that have joined in on my FB argument about swimming pools.
The woman arguing against "military style weapons" used to be an anti-gunner. She is now a gunner, but only understands the "need" for guns like hers.

And, she might be an ex-gf.

I do not have a swimming pool as they're inherently very dangerous and a hazard to the neighborhood. It's not the pool that kills, it's the water in it that kills. Too much water all in the same place. Even hot tubs are dangerous. Serious bathtub regulation is required as the water in them when filled is sufficient to kill. Controlling and limiting their water capacity making it impossible to put more than a couple inches in them could reduce deaths but banning them altogether is the real answer.

John
[who couldn't find the purple text color button]

 

[JAL]

How about shooting the tanks just to get them dumping fuel & have a small bomb of some type to get a fire going?

Basically correct. Requires a secondary means of igniting the fuel after its vapor pressure in air forms a proper fuel-air mixture that will ignite. Exploding is still extremely unlikely. Look up fuel storage farm fires, some of which were ignited by lighting strikes. Intense fires, but not explosions beyond fireballs from tank seams rupturing from the intense heat from tanks already on fire. If he could get it to rupture and then ignite the fuel, it would create a fuel fire wherever the fuel puddled. I would expect the fuel farm to have berms around them to contain leaks. The images on TV seem to confirm this.

John

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I do not have a swimming pool as they're inherently very dangerous and a hazard to the neighborhood. It's not the pool that kills, it's the water in it that kills. Too much water all in the same place. Even hot tubs are dangerous. Serious bathtub regulation is required as the water in them when filled is sufficient to kill. Controlling and limiting their water capacity making it impossible to put more than a couple inches in them could reduce deaths but banning them altogether is the real answer.

John
[who couldn't find the purple text color button]

One mother****er in my dad's very nice neighborhood emptied their pool into the road drainage area. Killed most of the fish in my dad's backyard pond, including some old grass carp and huge koi.

So, in a sense, residential pools are dangerous if the mother****er that owns it doesn't dispose of the water properly.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I wonder if anyone has checked to see if the tanks have any new holes or new dents.

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

I wonder if anyone has checked to see if the tanks have any new holes or new dents.

The article said they were repaired and repainted, seeming to indicate there were. Mainstream media never mentioned anything about this, no reason to doubt it though. I always found myself shooting at tanks in video games. He probably planned it though.

 

[JAL]

The article said they were repaired and repainted, seeming to indicate there were. Mainstream media never mentioned anything about this, no reason to doubt it though. I always found myself shooting at tanks in video games. He probably planned it though.

That doesn't suprise me. The airport fuel folks would have been out there immediately after they were told the shooter was down. I seriously doubt it's the first time their tanks have taken some small arms fire. Tank farms are drive by targets that idiots with nothing better to do will take potshots at occasionally, typically with handguns, perhaps to see if they can explode a tank like you see in the movies and on TV. It's a Movie Physics myth just like the guy exploding the car gas tank or lighting the leaking fuel on fire by shooting at it. Goes along with the shotgun blast blowing the guy 10 feet backward through the plate glass window in the high rise penthouse.

John

 

[The Bubba Effect]

The article said they were repaired and repainted, seeming to indicate there were. Mainstream media never mentioned anything about this, no reason to doubt it though. I always found myself shooting at tanks in video games. He probably planned it though.

Thanks, I had not read the article. Your comment about gaming was my first thought when I saw the image.

 

[tbhausen]

DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY ENGLISH!?!? #Triggered

No, I had just heard that once as a kid and that was the first link that I found that confirmed it. It’s odd the things you remember sometimes. Must be because I’m a gearhead.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Sheriff Lombardo suggested that Paddock probably "had some help", when discussing the amount of firepower he had.

I give Lombardo some leeway, though. Dude is ****ing exhausted, no sleep for days. People are ragging on him way too hard.

 

[actaeon277]

I do not have a swimming pool as they're inherently very dangerous and a hazard to the neighborhood. It's not the pool that kills, it's the water in it that kills. Too much water all in the same place. Even hot tubs are dangerous. Serious bathtub regulation is required as the water in them when filled is sufficient to kill. Controlling and limiting their water capacity making it impossible to put more than a couple inches in them could reduce deaths but banning them altogether is the real answer.

John
[who couldn't find the purple text color button]

Their counter arguments are always "that's different".
I tell them, "no, it's not. The only difference is that it affects you."

 

[actaeon277]