Active shooter at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas...

[DoggyDaddy]

[video=youtube;VB1QlHtOWCQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB1QlHtOWCQ[/video]

That's it! Sansabelts for everyone! (I think you have to be a certain age to remember what Sansabelts are).

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Now we're talking the same language. Personally, I'd prefer to keep the logistics of firearm registration extraordinarily complicated.

Well, unless the military greatly increases in the number of deployable troops, everyone stacks their guns by their front door, and/or teleporter technology is developed I think it'll stay pretty tough. New Orleans got maybe 2k guns and resulted in law suits, job loss for the superintendent who ordered it, and new federal legislation to prevent it. If that's Kirk's model of a national door-to-door gun grab by the military, I think it's a pretty solid indicator that it's not feasible on a large scale.

 

[T.Lex]

So maybe part of the counterargument is that the AR-style weapons he appears to have are fairly easy (so I've heard) to convert illegally to non-semi action. (I hesitate to say FA, because the AR/M-16 has "native" FA capability, but with far more substantial changes.)

If someone was really intent on making an AR fire faster, they could do it without the bumpfire stock.

Now, the vulnerability with that counter argument is, "Maybe we should just ban ARs."

 

[Denny347]

This.

It's somewhat ironic that people complain about "the narrative" and then try to make every criminal attack fit some other "narrative". Some folks are just evil. Sadistic. Sociopathic. Everything isn't politics, religion, or a vast conspiracy. Sometimes it's as simple as evil people do evil things, and trying to neatly pigeon hole it as political violence or what have you is just searching to make sense of something senseless.

Even the conspiracies are an attempt to have some comfort. Random and pointless is more scary than evil but at least rational.

 

[T.Lex]

...I think it's a pretty solid indicator that it's not feasible on a large scale.

Here's hoping.

 

[spencer rifle]

The logistics don't make sense, but I won't interfere with the mixture of fear mongering and Wolverines fantasy. It's a lot easier to pretend you'd have some enemy to fight instead of what actually happened in nations that did pass sweeping gun bans where the gun culture is driven underground and, over time, dies.

We don't live in those "nations."
This may not be how it starts, but the article below shows how it may end.
Rant: Second Amendment Repeal | National Review

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It could turn out to be just that simple .

However I'm not so quick to dismiss the girls interview and I'm betting that 100K AIN'T going to fund a new church and as everybody knows there aren't any terrorist groups there .

Someone planning to die providing resources and personal items to family and friends is pretty classic pre-suicide behavior...and this was definitely a murder suicide.

His girlfriend. Who's from the Philippines. And was/is a casino hostess in the US, which is how they met.

 

[ghitch75]

So maybe part of the counterargument is that the AR-style weapons he appears to have are fairly easy (so I've heard) to convert illegally to non-semi action. (I hesitate to say FA, because the AR/M-16 has "native" FA capability, but with far more substantial changes.)

If someone was really intent on making an AR fire faster, they could do it without the bumpfire stock.

Now, the vulnerability with that counter argument is, "Maybe we should just ban ARs."

so ban ....

AK'S

10/22's

MINI 14/30'S

SEMIAUTO SHOTGUN'S

GLOCK'S

1911'S..

where does it stop??????

 

[chipbennett]

It's obviously a workaround to the larger ban on automatic weapons. There really is no articulate argument, outside of freedom, that they'll be able to make.

Bumpfire is dead... let's just hope whatever brush they use to kill it isn't too broad... with unintended consequences for other firearms accessories.

That's fine. It would be consistent with the status quo for bump-fire devices to fall under NFA.

The real issue is the regulation of automatics, period. That is a fight that won't be successfully fought in the current climate, and making bump-fire a proxy for that fight likely won't be a winner, either.

Said another way: I don't see how bump-fire devices is a winning hill for us to die on, when the real battle to be won is dismantling the NFA itself.

 

[T.Lex]

so ban ....

AK'S

10/22's

MINI 14/30'S

SEMIAUTO SHOTGUN'S

GLOCK'S

1911'S..

where does it stop??????

Hopefully, right before bumpfires.

I remain convinced, though, that post-Newtown, the chance of actual gun control of actual guns (as opposed to accessories) is VERY unlikely to happen.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

so ban ....

We're in the wait-and-see period right now. Maybe another distraction will come along and nothing will happen... emotions will fade away and no longer be behind the push for bans.

We don't have a ton of leverage to argue though (on this one). We're bent over the barrel, waiting to see how bad they want to try and make it. They usually overplay their hand, though... which works out for us.

Edit: I'm sure there's a joke somewhere about being bent over a barrel, and jamil talking about varying inch-lengths.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Said another way: I don't see how bump-fire devices is a winning hill for us to die on, when the real battle to be won is dismantling the NFA itself.

A very difficult argument to make post-shooting, regardless of the weapons used. Need a calm period for something like that to get any traction at all.

 

[chipbennett]

A very difficult argument to make post-shooting, regardless of the weapons used. Need a calm period for something like that to get any traction at all.

What I see happening (if anything at all), is either ATF reclassifies bump-fire stocks as NFA, or congress tries to amend the law (and THAT would get ugly...) to make them NFA. I don't see an actual "ban" happening.

I think we should not really worry about what happens with bump-fire at this time. We should focus effort on SHARE/HPA. Getting suppressors removed from NFA would be an effective way to chip away at the end game.

 

[Denny347]

I skipped a few pages.

Regarding the timing, current reporting states that it was ~70 minutes to the breach, but he off'd himself when a uniformed security guard came down the hall to investigate the fire alarm/shooting. Dude likely thought it was a cop, shot through the door injuring the guard, then bit the bullet. That total time was between 10 and 15 minutes as I understand it.

Given the extra mags he had available, it could've been much worse for the police.

That's a kinda long way around to say that the rate of fire probably made things worse, in that more rounds were spewed at the concentrated target environment in a given amount of time. That increased injuries and decreased effective time to escape.

Articulating the benefits of bumpfire will be tricky. "Its fun" just doesn't resonate like it used to.

It's obviously a workaround to the larger ban on automatic weapons. There really is no articulate argument, outside of freedom, that they'll be able to make.

Bumpfire is dead... let's just hope whatever brush they use to kill it isn't too broad... with unintended consequences for other firearms accessories.

It was a silly gimmick before and indefensible now. There is no legal grounds to argue for it to stay.

 

[T.Lex]

Speaking of what may shake out in the calm-of-the-aftermath, the lingering suspicion that this guy was a leftist sticks with me. If that turns out to be true, then it would allow for a significant shift of the conversation.

Oh, there's also the classic, "If the bad guys have these, then the law abiding need them, too." Perhaps not right away, but it is still on the table.

 

[Woobie]

Sure.

Out of curiosity, what percentage of homes were searched in those incidents? What percentage of firearms were actually taken, and how many from non-abandoned homes?

The logistics don't make sense, but I won't interfere with the mixture of fear mongering and Wolverines fantasy. It's a lot easier to pretend you'd have some enemy to fight instead of what actually happened in nations that did pass sweeping gun bans where the gun culture is driven underground and, over time, dies.

1) Create digital database from existing paper database.

2) Require all future purchases to be added to database.

3) Require active FFL's to provide copies of all stored 4473's

4) Voluntary turn in period and add campaign

5) Provide federal funding to local law enforcement, just like the war on drugs. Let the locals go door to door and ask nicely. 80% of people will hand them over.

6) Reference S/N's against the searchable database you just created. The list just got way shorter.

7) Fund local LE to not ask nicely and provide them with access to the database.


Every day we find plants and chemicals in people's basements and garages, and there was never a 4473 on any of them. Local LE does the lion's share of the work through federal money. The logistics aren't as bad as you think. It's simply a matter of organization and fiscal leverage.

I want you to be able to do your job, and I trust you. But making your job easier has a pretty high price tag, on this instance, and I'm not of a mind to pay it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

from 30 floors up raining down on a crowd.....yes.....windows where broke out pretty low...

I find this difficult to believe. Shooter was able to keep controlled sustained fire, look down his sights (apparently), and target a specific crowd. If he had used a belt loop bump, I don't think he would be near as effective. Comparing a finger and a belt loop to a dedicated bump fire system that allows one to shoot from the shoulder, honestly, is ridiculous.

 

[donballz]

So what if we had a multipart solution -
1) regulate all attachments that increase rate of fire to be like high rate of fire original equipment. Bump stocks and cranks would then be regulated like machine guns. This would address one of the factors in the Vegas shooting.
2) pass nationwide reciprocity to address shootings like the congressional shooting.

I think it will take specific changes to address specific situations. Not generalizations

anyone got got any other ideas?

I think there is little chance that bump stocks remain legal over the near future. What does the second one mean?

 

[BiscuitsandGravy]

To quote a fellow 'er...

Not one inch.

If the madman had plowed one of his two planes into the crowd, would they want to ban airplanes?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I find this difficult to believe. Shooter was able to keep controlled sustained fire, look down his sights (apparently), and target a specific crowd. If he had used a belt loop bump, I don't think he would be near as effective. Comparing a finger and a belt loop to a dedicated bump fire system that allows one to shoot from the shoulder, honestly, is ridiculous.

Yeah, I've tried the belt loop thing. Most I ever managed to get off was 2 or 3 shots in rapid succession. But I didn't really try to practice to get better at it.