Active shooter at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas...

[Denny347]

It's not anyone's business if I own firearms. It's as simple as that. It's not fear. It's a matter of "your business/not your business". You don't need it just so it's more convenient for you to investigate.

I'm very comfortable using the "need" argument when it's authority vs personal liberty of citizens. What do you do when the gun has changed private hands umpteen times? Do all those sales need to be recorded too?

I'm not advocating registration. But I find it odd that the paper records that out of business shops send to the ATF is REGISTRATION if they are digitized. I never said that ALL 4473's be sent to ATF. Just the digitization of the records they are already being sent. It's irrational

 

[Fixer]

I have seen reported that he had 10, 19, and now 23 firearms with him in the room. Someone is just making it up as they go. The 2 pictured previously would make sense as one had what looked like a surefire 60 rd mag. Details still seem to be wildly different source to source. Makes you wonder if we will ever know the whole truth or just what the media wants us to know.

 

[HoughMade]

I think it went like this: "at least 10 in the room", "19 in the room" and "23 at his home".

There is no inconsistency in this reporting. Whether it is accurate or not...

Have we located the missing school bus and 29 kids secreted away from Sandy Hook yet?

 

[jamil]

Religion? Absolutely not. Basic human decency, morality, if you will? Primarily the parents' job, but all of society, including schools to an extent.

...and every law is an expression of someone's morality. Anyhoo, that's not what this topic is about and prayer in schools, etc., would not have prevented this.

As for bumpfire? I don't like any new laws. I don't like any new restrictions...but don't start thinking these things are a necessity of life just because there is ban talk.

I think this tends to be true, but it doesn't have to be. There are objective, utilitarian, logical reasons to have laws. Some laws that we have now are objective, and logical and have utility beyond any moral component, in which any moral components can be coincidence. It's most cultures think it's "wrong" to murder, but if there were no moral component in that at all a law against murder would be objective, logical and utilitarian.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

So do we just brush off this young lady's account of their being a warning 45 minutes before the shooting ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c1UNSm1Fks

She doesn't appear drunk or crazy .

 

[T.Lex]

I'm not advocating registration. But I find it odd that the paper records that out of business shops send to the ATF is REGISTRATION if they are digitized. I never said that ALL 4473's be sent to ATF. Just the digitization of the records they are already being sent. It's irrational

I do not think "irrational" means what you think it means.

That you may not understand or agree with it does not make something "irrational."

You're kinda talking out both sides of your mouth, BTW. Do you think of the 4473s sent to the ATF are a form of registration or a possible step toward it?

 

[Fixer]

Fox News is reporting that he purchased 2 stocks that turn a semi auto into a full auto gun. Just a bit misleading but with a 60 round mag would be close to full auto if you know how to use the stock.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Australia offers to help US with gun reform - Channel NewsAsia

Australia can go **** itself with a rake.

And International Business Times says Twitter wants US to be like Australia.

That's a funny way to word that headline... let's see what Twitter is, in this case...

Oh, 8 people with fewer than 1000 followers total? Yep, that accurately represents everyone on Twitter.

Should US Learn Gun Control From Australia? Twitter Thinks So

Again. Rake. **** one.

 

[printcraft]

Antifa and isis both claimed the shooter as one of their own.
That speaks volumes to those paying attention.

 

[churchmouse]

And International Business Times says Twitter wants US to be like Australia.

That's a funny way to word that headline... let's see what Twitter is, in this case...

Oh, 8 people with fewer than 1000 followers total? Yep, that accurately represents everyone on Twitter.

Should US Learn Gun Control From Australia? Twitter Thinks So

Again. Rake. **** one.

Australia.....seriously.

 

[jamil]

The 4473s are a compromise between registration and not registration.

So it seems at least not crazy to say it's not really registration, at the same time that it's not really not registration either.

Like a registration system would be, you have to fill out a form, that form has the same kind of information on it that a registration system could have, and the form gets saved, albeit in a paper filing system. There were paper car registration systems before there were electronic ways of saving them too.

But it's not like registration in that it's not actually the gun ownership that gets registered. It's the gun purchase from a licensed dealer that gets registered. You might give that gun away to some homeless guy on the street as soon as you leave the store. That'd be silly to do. But you could. And you wouldn't own it anymore. And there'd not be any change in that registration.

 

[printcraft]

I've got something down unda that australia can kiss.

 

[printcraft]

Digitizing these records would have stopped this guy........ HOW?!

 

[jamil]

I've got something down unda that australia can kiss.

Until it barks like a fox?

That's something an old friend used to say. Reminded me of that.

 

[Route 45]

I'm not advocating registration. But I find it odd that the paper records that out of business shops send to the ATF is REGISTRATION if they are digitized. I never said that ALL 4473's be sent to ATF. Just the digitization of the records they are already being sent. It's irrational

I don't see what is so hard to understand about it. If the process to find these records is burdensome and time consuming for the government, it protects against the records being easily and quickly used for nefarious purposes. If the records are digitized and easily accessible, they become a defacto registration.

 

[churchmouse]

Digitizing these records would have stopped this guy........ HOW?!

I am still waiting to see if he has a history on mental.

 

[HubertGummer]

Antifa and isis both claimed the shooter as one of their own.
That speaks volumes to those paying attention.

Interesting. I hadn't heard about Antifa.

 

[jamil]

Digitizing these records would have stopped this guy........ HOW?!

Well. It wouldn't have helped stop this guy at all. It just would have taken fewer man hours for cops to learn possibly where and how the guns were purchased. Of course, then, it could be timely reported so that the mob can properly shame the sources.

 

[printcraft]

Interesting. I hadn't heard about Antifa.

Consider with requisite grains of salt:

View attachment 59614

"The Australian understands that she was the girlfriend of the dead shooter Stephen Paddock. Ms Danley is understood to have shared a house in Las Vegas with Mr Paddock. She holds an Australian passport and is possibly of Indonesian decent."

Nocookies | The Australian

.

 

[openwell]

[FONT=p ury Schoolbook L]actual example of ATF trace:[/FONT]
[FONT=p ury Schoolbook L]Gun used in a homicide let’s say in Florida, without specific names.[/FONT]
[FONT=p ury Schoolbook L]I had an FFL back when they were 3 years for $30, you could have it in your home. Used mostly for friends since not much of a saving from 2 or 3 distributors you could buy from. Renewed it several times, then let it lapse, then sent records and bundle of 4473 forms to ATF in Texas if I remember correctly.[/FONT]
[FONT=p ury Schoolbook L]Ten years or so later I got a call from ATF agent in town asking about a handgun I sold used in a homicide in Florida lets say.[/FONT]
[FONT=p ury Schoolbook L]ATF traced gun sale Starting from Manufacturer with serial number to Distributor to Me the FFL who sold the gun. ATF got my number from local phone records to call me.[/FONT]
[FONT=p ury Schoolbook L]Gave agent this response on phone:[/FONT]
[FONT=p ury Schoolbook L]From memory, one of my friends had bought one of that model of gun was deceased about 5 years but had a home in Florida and surviving relatives still in Florida.[/FONT]
[FONT=p ury Schoolbook L]That’s it. Process is rather quick. No search of stacks of records in a warehouse in Texas. No further contact with ATF so don’t know how it ends[/FONT]