"Acquiring" Items

[DadOfFour]

So, after the balloon goes up we all know there's going to be looting/rioting. I've got kids, it is financially prohibitive for me to stock things like clothes for them since they're growing so fast. This means that part of my plan is to "acquire" things for them when the balloon goes up. I can get to my current BOL with my minivan, however an SUV would be much better, however it's not in the financial cards right now.
So, here's my question, at what point do you say "to hell with what the law says" and "acquire" those items that you need. Too soon, and you're sitting in the pokey when the balloon goes up, too late and there's nothing left or you're having to fight for that pair of shoes for your kids. Say there's a case of H5N1 in NY, one in FL, and one in CA...is that the time, or do you wait? Obviously in a situation like a polar shift or something it'll happen fast and there won't be any question. But what about in a situation where you as a prepper who's watching the news sees something coming a few days before the rest of the populace?

 

[snapping turtle]

Water food shelter and transportation. Got those basics covered?

I would never let preping get in the way of personal freedom.....

 

[megalomaniac]

My advice is to prepare as fast as finances allow, but be ready to take what you need only in a pinch. By pinch I mean "my kids aren't going to eat/freeze to death/get scurvy"

 

[DadOfFour]

Water food shelter and transportation. Got those basics covered?

I would never let preping get in the way of personal freedom.....

My advice is to prepare as fast as finances allow, but be ready to take what you need only in a pinch. By pinch I mean "my kids aren't going to eat/freeze to death/get scurvy"

Maybe I should have been more specific. I've got the "basics" covered, and I've got everything broken down as far as, stuff to take if we need to leave RFN, stuff to take if we've got a couple hours, stuff to take if we've got a couple days.

I'm talking about things you'd like to have but can't afford. Let's face it, if the balloon has gone up I could give two sh*ts about what the law says, I only care about ensuring my kids survival at that point, which means, if I need a truck, well there's a dealership not too far from my house, I'll go in the middle of the night and "acquire" one. If I need a bunch of different sized boots for my kids, I'll "acquire" them. I'm asking at what point do you start "acquiring" items?

 

[shibumiseeker]

Two things:

First, on most sites, this one included, discussion of committing illegal acts goes against the terms of service on a site. That includes discussions of how you will loot after SHTF and things like cannibalism.

Second, in just about every major SHTF disaster in history, even when things looked bleakest, there was either a return to a rule of law when the new regime is sorted out or when the disaster was over and the normal rule of law returned. In those cases people who acted in a lawless fashion often are called to account for their actions, even when it was hard choices at the time, such as the nursing staff who were trapped in the hopsital with the patients they couldn't move in Katrina.

In the case of people who go lawless, unless it's a true Omega Man situation, justice against looters, murderers, rapists, and the like, is likely to be swift and brutal, so be careful what you're planning for.

 

[pudly]

Please realize that in that situation, others aren't likely to give a whit about your children losing their father either. Preparations based on stealing from others is not a long term winner in SHTF. If you steal from others that are also under stress and people have to provide their own security, you will not be able to last with this tactic.

 

[churchmouse]

This is a decision best left to when it has to be made. We will all do what needs to be done in the face of SHTF to survive. That is a given. Fortunately my kids are all mid-20's and up. They have kids and we all discuss these things around the fire over a few adult beverages. We all prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Me whole reason for prepping is my kids and their kids. It is after all, only about them. At 62 I am not done but have lived and seen a lot. I am now doing for them and their future. The kids are and will be my weakness. What do you do if in your escape you come across lost or abandoned children. A lot to consider, a lot to plan for.

 

[Scutter01]

I don't need a law to tell me what's right and what's wrong. A thief is a thief, regardless of the conditions.

 

[strahd71]

I don't need a law to tell me what's right and what's wrong. A thief is a thief, regardless of the conditions.

i agree but at the same time doesnt it kinda depend on what the situation is?

and how long the event is, death rates etc?

in a protracted situation when does it stop being stealing/looting to savaging and foraging?

jake

 

[Kmcinnes]

If you are just going to loot like the rest of the parasites than why prep at all! Prepping is ment to keep you and your family safe and out potentially deadly situations. All I know is looters will be the first to get a shotgun in their face by me. Sorry of your finances are not conducive to prepping properly but than again neither is any of ours. It takes time and some money and we look at almost every purchase as how does it fit into our daily life as well as prepping life. Instead of planning the looting route why not learn how to sew clothing as an added skill, why not purchase a used truck at a decent price now (we all know that you will make use of it). My point is if you begin to loot you will pribobly wind up dead and your kids will have no father in a completely moral less society. I am prepped so that I can help rebuild society not help degrade it!

 

[Scutter01]

i agree but at the same time doesnt it kinda depend on what the situation is?

and how long the event is, death rates etc?

in a protracted situation when does it stop being stealing/looting to savaging and foraging?

jake

As already stated, a person who is already planning to augment his preps by stealing from others has already committed the crime in his mind. I'm not going to second-guess the actions of someone who is desperate, but I'm not going to applaud them for pre-planning their desperation.

 

[Justin Case]

Since you have the basics covered in order to provide the immediate needs of your family, I would suggest you consider bartering for the on-going needs of your family such as clothes for your kids. Remember, your kids aren't the only kids that are growing out of their clothes, shoes, etc. The clothes they have outgrown may be just the size for a family with younger kids that have also grown out of their clothes. Trade some of the clothes your kids have outgrown to a family that needs them. In return get something back (maybe medicine, food, tools, etc.) that you can then trade to another family with older kids that have outgrown their clothes. Most people after SHTF will have needs. I expect once things settle a bit people will come together to barter. Also, you may have skills that you can use to barter with, if not you still may have time to learn some skills that will be needed after SHTF.

Another idea is to put aside some money now to buy cloth, thread, etc., that you or your wife can later sew into the clothes your kids will need.

Just something to consider...

 

[DadOfFour]

Two things:

First, on most sites, this one included, discussion of committing illegal acts goes against the terms of service on a site. That includes discussions of how you will loot after SHTF and things like cannibalism.

Second, in just about every major SHTF disaster in history, even when things looked bleakest, there was either a return to a rule of law when the new regime is sorted out or when the disaster was over and the normal rule of law returned. In those cases people who acted in a lawless fashion often are called to account for their actions, even when it was hard choices at the time, such as the nursing staff who were trapped in the hopsital with the patients they couldn't move in Katrina.

In the case of people who go lawless, unless it's a true Omega Man situation, justice against looters, murderers, rapists, and the like, is likely to be swift and brutal, so be careful what you're planning for.

I'm not talking about illegal acts, I'm talking about doing what needs to be done to keep my children alive. I'm not talking about a Katrina type situation, I'm talking about a true TEOWAWKI situation.

Please realize that in that situation, others aren't likely to give a whit about your children losing their father either. Preparations based on stealing from others is not a long term winner in SHTF. If you steal from others that are also under stress and people have to provide their own security, you will not be able to last with this tactic.

I'm not talking about taking from my neighbors, I'm talking about, say Wally World, the place WILL be looted post TEOTWAWKI so the question becomes when is it ok to get what you need without waiting too long so there's nothing left. Also, I'm not basing my preps on stealing, I'm talking about supplementing existing preps.

The kids are and will be my weakness. What do you do if in your escape you come across lost or abandoned children. A lot to consider, a lot to plan for.

I'm already faced with this, my ex wife (who can rot for all I care) has another child, think she's about 2 now. I have zero emotional attachment to that child, yet, she IS my kids' sister. I honestly don't know how I'm going to handle it.

I don't need a law to tell me what's right and what's wrong. A thief is a thief, regardless of the conditions.

Really Scutter, so, the world has ended, there is NO government, there is NO law, you've got a working vehicle but you're out of gas. I assume from your statement you'll be abandoning that vehicle rather than punching holes in the tanks of cars in parking lots, or siphoning gas from tanks at an abandoned gas station?

 

[shibumiseeker]

i agree but at the same time doesnt it kinda depend on what the situation is?

and how long the event is, death rates etc?

in a protracted situation when does it stop being stealing/looting to savaging and foraging?

jake

These are all difficult situations that will be faced, but making looting part of your plan is a pretty good indicator of a person's character. I cannot say what I would do when faced with a difficult choice until I am faced with it, but I sure as hell know that I work to avoid facing it in the first place rather than just counting on stealing whatever I need.

 

[churchmouse]

I'm already faced with this, my ex wife (who can rot for all I care) has another child, think she's about 2 now. I have zero emotional attachment to that child, yet, she IS my kids' sister. I honestly don't know how I'm going to handle it.


The best way you can for the child. We do not matter except for their survival.


Really Scutter, so, the world has ended, there is NO government, there is NO law, you've got a working vehicle but you're out of gas. I assume from your statement you'll be abandoning that vehicle rather than punching holes in the tanks of cars in parking lots, or siphoning gas from tanks at an abandoned gas station?[/QUOTE]


Not wanting to stir anything up but I have pumps for just this thing. Not planning on being a looter but "Plan for the worst Etc."


I see Scutters point.

 

[strahd71]

These are all difficult situations that will be faced, but making looting part of your plan is a pretty good indicator of a person's character. I cannot say what I would do when faced with a difficult choice until I am faced with it, but I sure as hell know that I work to avoid facing it in the first place rather than just counting on stealing whatever I need.

i agree it's not what i want or what i believe the original OP wants.

but despite all of our best efforts there could be a possibility of a scenario where the best prepped persons preps just run out with no chance of any means in the near future.

if the neighbors next to you are dead is it stealing?

if it is a zombie apocalypse do u have enough preps to last u the rest of ur life? what if you have to leave ur preps and bug out and keep moving?

just for the record i'm talking real long term situations not the power is out for a week, i'm talking total breakdown.

looting is not a part of my plan but i wont let my kids die over principles. i'm not saying i would kill someone either to get what i need, but there are plenty of empty places with canned goods etc,

jake

 

[shibumiseeker]

i agree it's not what i want or what i believe the original OP wants.

Then why would the OP use weasel words like "acquiring." Dead or not, taking other people's property still is theft.

If I were starving would I steal food? Probably. Would I steal it from someone else who was starving? I really don't know. Would I say "well, I can't afford to stock everything now so I'll steal a better truck if I get the opportunity"? No.

Justify it any way you want, it's still theft. Is it right or wrong, I can't say because of the exigent circumstances, but it's still theft. And the Omega Man situation is about the only one I see where there won't be a return to some form of law, and history bears this out.

 

[strahd71]

Then why would the OP use weasel words like "acquiring." Dead or not, taking other people's property still is theft.

If I were starving would I steal food? Probably. Would I steal it from someone else who was starving? I really don't know. Would I say "well, I can't afford to stock everything now so I'll steal a better truck if I get the opportunity"? No.

Justify it any way you want, it's still theft. Is it right or wrong, I can't say because of the exigent circumstances, but it's still theft. And the Omega Man situation is about the only one I see where there won't be a return to some form of law, and history bears this out.

i dont disagree with you my friend........... the important word is survive tho.

jake

 

[DadOfFour]

These are all difficult situations that will be faced, but making looting part of your plan is a pretty good indicator of a person's character. I cannot say what I would do when faced with a difficult choice until I am faced with it, but I sure as hell know that I work to avoid facing it in the first place rather than just counting on stealing whatever I need.

So instead of compromising my principals I should leave my children in a situation where they're in the middle of an Indiana Winter without shoes? Like I said earlier, I'm NOT talking about a Katrina situation, I'm talking about a true TEOTWAWKI situation. My oldest is currently 11, if the balloon goes up tomorrow I do not have shoes for her when she grows another foot and a half, so I'm stuck with the choice of letting her be bare foot, which compromises her ability to survive, or taking that which I need to help her survive. My sons are 7, they're growing on average 2-3 sizes every year so if the balloon goes up I do not have clothes for them for a year or two from now....do I make them try to survive naked?
There is nothing wrong with my character, my first last and only priority is making sure that my children live and if that means that after the balloon goes up I have to go to Wally World and take what I need for them, then so be it. That's the same reason that should it become necessary I will take a life to protect them.

 

[shibumiseeker]

So instead of compromising my principals I should leave my children in a situation where they're in the middle of an Indiana Winter without shoes? Like I said earlier, I'm NOT talking about a Katrina situation, I'm talking about a true TEOTWAWKI situation. My oldest is currently 11, if the balloon goes up tomorrow I do not have shoes for her when she grows another foot and a half, so I'm stuck with the choice of letting her be bare foot, which compromises her ability to survive, or taking that which I need to help her survive. My sons are 7, they're growing on average 2-3 sizes every year so if the balloon goes up I do not have clothes for them for a year or two from now....do I make them try to survive naked?
There is nothing wrong with my character, my first last and only priority is making sure that my children live and if that means that after the balloon goes up I have to go to Wally World and take what I need for them, then so be it. That's the same reason that should it become necessary I will take a life to protect them.

So instead of learning how to make what you need or make it makeshift, you're plan is simply to steal what you need. It's your character, you justify it any way you want. It'll make you feel better driving around that shiny new truck.

"A lack of proper planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part."