"Acquiring" Items

[churchmouse]

All we need now is a new bragging rights thread and it's deja vu all over again.

I was thinking that when the tone lightened up and we were planing a Sasquatch BBQ with kegs and guns and firetrucks and planes.

 

[Kmcinnes]

I was thinking that when the tone lightened up and we were planing a Sasquatch BBQ with kegs and guns and firetrucks and planes.

Maybe Christian Indy can bring the potato Salad?

 

[techres]

1. Remember the maxim:

You Are,
What You Do,
When It Counts.

2. If you want to be Mr. Hard, know that he already exists and will eat you alive.

3. Morality is not for the easy times, it is for when your back is against the wall. Many have made the hard choices in history, your question is full of fear and weak choices.

4. There is something beyond the now. Be it the stable time to come, or that final bridge we all cross alone. There here and now ain't all, and if I am guessing right, we will all stand before our maker to answer for what we have done.

5. While you are pondering these, watch some TV:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuj2yuoC3PY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU7v1Cs-Bc4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSwrIy4IwoU

 

[Kmcinnes]

1. Remember the maxim:

You Are,
What You Do,
When It Counts.

2. If you want to be Mr. Hard, know that he already exists and will eat you alive.

3. Morality is not for the easy times, it is for when your back is against the wall. Many have made the hard choices in history, your question is full of fear and weak choices.

4. There is something beyond the now. Be it the stable time to come, or that final bridge we all cross alone. There here and now ain't all, and if I am guessing right, we will all stand before our maker to answer for what we have done.

great way to put it!

 

[Dirtebiker]

Sweat!

Yuck!

 

[Kmcinnes]

Yuck!

What you don't like sweaty Sasquatch? Lol it late!

 

[hoosierdaddy1976]

earlier this evening, i was watching part 1 of lonesome dove. reading this thread made me think of the scene where robert duvall and tommy lee jones lead a team to mexico to steal horses for the cattle drive. that reminded me of the movie days of thunder where the day of the daytona 500 robert duvall tells tom cruise the new engine in the car is stolen. moral of the story- when the shtf, don't trust robert duvall.

 

[churchmouse]

earlier this evening, i was watching part 1 of lonesome dove. reading this thread made me think of the scene where robert duvall and tommy lee jones lead a team to mexico to steal horses for the cattle drive. that reminded me of the movie days of thunder where the day of the daytona 500 robert duvall tells tom cruise the new engine in the car is stolen. moral of the story- when the shtf, don't trust robert duvall.

That is a stretch but I loved Lonesome Dove.

 

[7.62asprin]

You can get quality clothes cheap at a goodwill, I've found great suits, dress shirts, and ties at goodwill. But if SHTF and I had to "acquire" items that I couldn't trade for, or couldn't get anyone to just give it to me, I'd prefer to do so from shopping centers, failing that, abandoned homes. If I still could not find what I needed, I'd be pretty S.O.L. because I can't really see myself robbing or stealing from people.

 

[lester]

I don't need a law to tell me what's right and what's wrong. A thief is a thief, regardless of the conditions.

This. Morales and ethics are even more important during a crisis than we think they are now (before). The wrong choices during hard times have far more serious consequences than they do during a time of plenty. There is nothing different between us and the great unwashed masses we prepare to defend against if part of our plan is to take from others. Just because you have the power to take something, and just because the reason for your need is compelling (hungry children), does not make your premeditated immoral action acceptable.

 

[churchmouse]

This. Morales and ethics are even more important during a crisis than we think they are now (before). The wrong choices during hard times have far more serious consequences than they do during a time of plenty. There is nothing different between us and the great unwashed masses we prepare to defend against if part of our plan is to take from others. Just because you have the power to take something, and just because the reason for your need is compelling (hungry children), does not make your premeditated immoral action acceptable.

This is well put and I agree but perceptions change when the children are hungry, when the children are cold, wet and any other situation that will arise in a crisis. If they are sick. When you are near being overwhelmed by those who would have your essentials and goods. Perceptions change. Just saying.

 

[bwframe]

This is well put and I agree but perceptions change when the children are hungry, when the children are cold, wet and any other situation that will arise in a crisis. If they are sick. When you are near being overwhelmed by those who would have your essentials and goods. Perceptions change. Just saying.

Isn't that why we prep with many contingencies, so this doesn't happen? Or if it does, there are means to handle it?

Making excuses before the fact is just covering your tail on the backs of your children. You are setting yourself up for failure and them up for a bad example.

 

[longbow]

The end results will be bad for you and your family............

 

[churchmouse]

Isn't that why we prep with many contingencies, so this doesn't happen? Or if it does, there are means to handle it?

Making excuses before the fact is just covering your tail on the backs of your children. You are setting yourself up for failure and them up for a bad example.

Not speaking of myself., Responding to the original premise set down by the OP.
Yes, that is why we prep. I think the question is and always will be, can we prep enough. Can we cover every contingency. For most, no. For a few, maybe.

My point is simple. People operate on their perceived needs. I see the world through my experiences and you through yours. Morality, honer and so on are different in everyone based on these experiences. A mother will do some amazing things to protect her children. A father will also go past his normal moral boundaries in the protection of family. Take away the structured lifestyle that allows us to be moral and honorable and see how long it takes for folks to revert back to the base animals we started out as. This will not be a stretch for some and others will resist for a time but if the world tips over and our social structure collapses there will be dark times.
Preps will only take us so far. Scavenging and gathering will become the norm in a long term scenario. People will do what they must to survive. JMHO.

 

[bwframe]

...Responding to the original premise set down by the OP.

Me too. Sorry, didn't mean to give any other impression.

Yes, that is why we prep. I think the question is and always will be, can we prep enough. Can we cover every contingency. For most, no. For a few, maybe.

My argument is that using the "can't possibly be totally prepared" mentality leads to lazy excuses for never prepping. The same as using the "would do anything for my children," phrasing as a crutch to justify theft.

Of course we as parents would do anything to keep our kids alive and healthy. That is our job as parents. Waving that job around as an excuse to justify bad actions doesn't buy you acceptance for them.

 

[churchmouse]

Me too. Sorry, didn't mean to give any other impression.

My argument is that using the "can't possibly be totally prepared" mentality leads to lazy excuses for never prepping. The same as using the "would do anything for my children," phrasing as a crutch to justify theft.

Of course we as parents would do anything to keep our kids alive and healthy. That is our job as parents. Waving that job around as an excuse to justify bad actions doesn't buy you acceptance for them.

I took no offense as I knew none was intended.
I truly believe that the majority of folks in this forum believe they will maintain a level of integrity and morality if things un-fold as we hope they won't.
I also believe that our perceptions of right and wrong will become blurred with time and the stresses of such a situation. Not a justification of a looting way of surviving but if it comes to this, well, who knows. My "kids are all mid-20's and beyond but I will see that the grand kids are cared for. They are the main reason I prep.

It is all about the children....period.

Be Safe.

 

[bear-girl]

...part of my plan is to "acquire" things for them when the balloon goes up. ...
So, here's my question, at what point do you say "to hell with what the law says" and "acquire" those items that you need. Too soon, and you're sitting in the pokey when the balloon goes up, too late and there's nothing left or you're having to fight for that pair of shoes for your kids. Say there's a case of H5N1 in NY, one in FL, and one in CA...is that the time, or do you wait? Obviously in a situation like a polar shift or something it'll happen fast and there won't be any question. But what about in a situation where you as a prepper who's watching the news sees something coming a few days before the rest of the populace?

OP, your many claims of only considering stealing after TEOTWAWKI has already been in place is not backed up by your original post, which is why we are skeptical of your claims of being in a TEOTWAWKI environment. Clearly, three cases of flu in the U.S. is not the time to steal from Walmart or to steal a truck from the auto dealer, yet whether it is OK to do that is what your question is. You are clearly asking about stealing when you get an INDICATOR that SHTF is imminent, not long after it is in effect. Heck, there are probably a lot more than three cases of flu in this country right now.

Virtually everything in this country is owned by somebody, or maybe a group of somebodies. They have a right to expect it to still be there when they come for it. If it isn't there when they come for it because somebody stole it, that is not acceptable in a moral society. One of this country's founding fathers said something to the effect that laws are not necessary in a moral society, and laws are unenforceable in an immoral society. Whether laws are in effect or not, morality will go a long way to providing an acceptable way of life after SHTF.

The way to deal with shortages or inadequacies or unexpected contingencies in your preps has been explained by several people: learn some skills, be part of a group with a variety of skills and stored items, and deal with issues as a group when the time comes. However, if proper preps have taken place, that time will be long into the SHTF period, not a few days before it starts.

You say that part of your plan is to "acquire" things when the balloon goes up; actually it appears by your question that your plan is to get a jump on all of the other looters and do it just before the balloon goes up, and you are asking for advice on that plan. That is why your plan has received such a negative response. It is not a good plan.